My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

Post pictures of your beloved catfish aquaria here. Also good for pictures of your (cat)fish rooms or equipment discussions. If you are posting pictures of identified catfish, please do so in the appropriate husbandry and reproduction forum above.
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Viktor Jarikov
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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Update in over 1.5 years. The yellow bullhead has been well in a different tank with different tank mates. It is dominated by the snail bullhead tank mate but not proactively, only when it runs into the snail, the yellow runs away usually. It feeds too well as well, so very chubby.

1.5 years later. The surviving snail bullhead had been doing well removed from the 1800 gal but in the last 3 months has been on a hunger strike out of blue. I hope it comes around. My guess is our water changes got inadequate at 100% in 30 days over the last several years. A month or two ago, we bought new RO membranes and increased the WC to 100% in 3-4 days. Hopefully it'll help the bullhead to rebound.

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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

The remaining 7 gulpers have been doing well. Here is a typical weekly feeding - everyone is getting a 6"-8" VitaChem-fortified herring or two.

Sexi, the 2ft sexfasciatus, is still in timeout in a 240 gal. He is fed around 10-20 giant NLS pellets 6 nights a week. He never shows interest in fish or fish pieces so long he gets his pellet fill.

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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

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Night and day feeding of the "jerk" tank. No change to report, same old and stable so far.

Our behri grows length wise slowly but remains very thin. It goes for the pellets every feeding but is never able to get many or enough to fill up and does this strange thing where he abandons trying to clumsily suck up the pellets and swims off to start suck-cleaning the rocks, etc. No wonder it is so thin. It is about 10" now.

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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

Post by Shovelnose »

Viktor Jarikov wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 17:28 -- 2x Tor malabaricus. One looks right, similar to our adult malabaricus. The other looks "generic", most common mahseer, like douronensis, soro, etc.
Hey Viktor, great video there as usual!! You suspect the caudal fins of the Mahseer are getting nibbled off? The T.malabaricus I keep have significantly long caudal fin lobes with striking black on the principal rays.
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Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

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Shovelnose wrote: 06 Mar 2022, 06:48 Hey Viktor, great video there as usual!! You suspect the caudal fins of the Mahseer are getting nibbled off? The T.malabaricus I keep have significantly long caudal fin lobes with striking black on the principal rays.
Thank you Balaji! When these 6 smaller mahseer lived with pacu in 240 gal, the pacu managed to bite off some fin pieces every now and then, including on the bottom caudal lobe of one mahseer which I believe may be true malabaricus. Other than these occasional problems, that are now in the past since the 6 were moved to 1800 gal, there have been no other problems.

As for your specimen, it might help to see the photos of what you are talking about.
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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

Post by Shovelnose »

Viktor Jarikov wrote: 06 Mar 2022, 19:38 As for your specimen, it might help to see the photos of what you are talking about.
IMG_20220228_103434.jpg
A rubbish pic of one of the T.malabaricus I currently keep (6-7" TL), notice any difference in the caudal fin?
Balaji

Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
Viktor Jarikov
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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Shovelnose wrote: 07 Mar 2022, 06:03 A rubbish pic of one of the T.malabaricus I currently keep (6-7" TL), notice any difference in the caudal fin?
Nice. Thank you. Are these black bands in the caudal, anal, and dorsal a reliable ID trait of Tor malabaricus? Our 2 footer alleged malabaricus has them, albeit they are rather faint but still discernible. The supposed 1 footer doesn't have them, its fins are even gray. None of the other mahseer we got here, big or small, have these black bands.

If this trait is reliable, I'd say we don't have any other malabaricus except the big guy.
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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

One of the champion overzealous feeding machines, on par with D. lusosso, has died. One of the cigar sharks. I believe from overfeeding. These fish have to be kept solo or in a setting where their feed intake can be controlled, which is impossible in the communities we ever kept them in.

It is the one of two that had a large black bulge (fat sack / blowout?) above its left eye for the last year. The other cigar shark is ok for now.

28 inches / 70 cm, 20 lbs / 9 kg, 8 years old:

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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

Post by Shovelnose »

Viktor Jarikov wrote: 07 Mar 2022, 19:09 Are these black bands in the caudal, anal, and dorsal a reliable ID trait of Tor malabaricus? Our 2 footer alleged malabaricus has them, albeit they are rather faint but still discernible.
Yeah, T.malabaricus is one of the few Indian mahseer that can be reliably identified and the black on the fins along with fewer lateral line scales is key for the same.

I didn't know this species reached the 2 foot mark, sounds like a massive specimen!! It is otherwise known to max out at around a foot in length.
Balaji

Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Shovelnose wrote: 08 Mar 2022, 05:44
Yeah, T.malabaricus is one of the few Indian mahseer that can be reliably identified and the black on the fins along with fewer lateral line scales is key for the same.

I didn't know this species reached the 2 foot mark, sounds like a massive specimen!! It is otherwise known to max out at around a foot in length.
Thank you so much brother! Maybe it is not malabaricus after all, if it is unknown to exceed 1ft... Maybe it is khudree?

I don't expect you to look at everything below but I do wonder what you'd say...


*****


Here is the big supposed malabaricus 5 years ago Feb 2017, at 1.5ft. It came one-eyed from Wesley Wong of Rare Fish, California, USA. The right eye had been poked out.
BTW, a seemingly knowledgeable colleague posted in the comments on YouTube on my video:
まなし1 week ago
This fish isn't Tor malabaricus. I think it's Tor khudree. For Tor malabaricus, the first epaxial longitudinal series of scales is clearly too many the number.

I replied: Fish Story Aquarium & Rescue1 week ago
Thank you so much for the info. I think you may be quite right. When I look at it swimming by my large 2' Tor khudree, they are stunningly similar. I wonder though why in some sources Tor malabaricus is listed as Tor khudree malabaricus.


*******


Feb 2018: The supposed malabaricus is featured from the beginning and almost to the end when the bigger khudree comes in for several seconds:

*****


Jan 2019, going to the 25K gal:

******


Feb 2019:
Post from Jibran with photos of khudree and malabaricus: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/foru ... st-8057413

thebiggerthebetter said:
AFAIK the location - the malabaricus is of course from southern India. But Jibran headbanger_jib headbanger_jib has written of some discernible differences before between an khudree and an khudree malabaricus.
Jibran: Khudree originally is from Maharashtra, which was hybridised by the govt and later introduced widely as source of food in the rivers, so now the hybrid khudree us found in Maharashtra, karnataka and Kerala.

Tor Malabaricus is from kerala

moe214 said:
What’s the differences from this one and the malabaricus
Jibran: Khudree has smaller scales, the headshape is pointy.
Malabaricus has visibly larger scales, hence the lateral line scale count is less, the fins get reddish during monsoon. Else they are dark coloured.

Here are a few pics that would help... (see the link above)


*****


Apr 2020, loss of our khudree: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/foru ... st-8219103
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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

*****


Jun 2020: Jibran aka headbanger says Tor putitora and Tor tor are the same or indistinguishable if I got him right and also khudree and malabaricus are (hardly) different, which agrees with my observation. https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/foru ... st-8248175


*****


Jul 2020: photos of the smaller mahseer, two of which we bought as malabaricus https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/foru ... st-8251528

and a video

*****

Feb 2022 The 6 smaller mahseer two of which were bought as malabaricus:
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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

One of the 6 newcomer mahseer in the 1800 gal is proving to be courageous and hungry. I think this is the 10" douronensis we bought from Jeff Rapps just before he sold his business.

- Tor douronensis
- aka Semah mahseer,
- aka gold rose mahseer,
- aka thai gold mahseer

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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

Post by Shovelnose »

Viktor Jarikov wrote: 08 Mar 2022, 16:55 Maybe it is khudree?

Yes, blue fins plus dorsal profile says T.khudree, the image of the dead fish also resembles this species. However, I wouldn't be able to comment on whether these are hybrids or not, its almost impossible IMHO.
I find the dorsal profile of T.malabricus and T.khudree to be quite different, I will mail you pics of what I see/think the difference is.

Some information on Indian Tor.

Species of Tor known from southern India.

Tor remadevii (Humpback Mahseer) - Upper Cauvery in Tamil Nadu, Kerala and Karnataka. Critically Endangered. Unlikely to be ever encountered in the trade.

Tor khudree (Blue-finned Mahseer) – Originally from the Krishna river in Maharashtra & Karnataka. It has since been introduced into dozens of rivers all over India and a few locations outside of the country as well (Papa New Guinea, Laos etc). This act, IMO, has only created more confusion.

Additionally, there are many claims (accusations?) that the introduced fish are khudree*putitora/tor hybrids which obviously makes it worse. I have seen a few of these alleged hybrids in fish markets here and they look nothing like Tor, almost discus shaped and terribly malformed fish. I also got a few pics of the broodstock used in the breeding program and they looked no better, I lean towards believing the hybrid accusations based on this. Bycatches are exported on and off.

Tor malabaricus (Malabar Mahseer) – Middle reaches of westflowing Rivers in Karnataka, Tamilnadu and Kerala. Collected very often and exported. There is a breeding program in place for this species as well.

There is also T. kulkarnii from the Godavari River Drainage (Maharashtra) which was described as a dwarf mahseer. Validity is unknown at the moment, I made a few attempts to collect the fish from the type locality but was told it hasn’t been seen in many years.

Tor from the northern regions.

Tor tor (Red-fin Mahseer) – Commonly collected from West Bengal (especially between the months of November and February) for the trade. It has a large distribution extending down to central India. I’ve encountered multiple 'types' (deep body, slender body, red fins, yellow fins etc) of this species including a golden one that I got from central India recently.

Tor putitora (Golden Mahseer) – Need I say more? :icon-wink:

Tor chelynoides – A dwarfish species, maxes out at around a foot. Found in the Ganges and Indus drainages (north-northwest India). Never been in the trade but a cool fish for the hobby IMO. Considered to belong to the genus Naziritor by some.

T.mosal - I have what I think could be T.mosal, one 'type' from Arunachal Pradesh and another from Assam (with minute differences). I believe this is a species with a slender body, an elongate snout and a very prominent mid lateral stripe.

There are three other nominal species, T.barake,T.mahanadicus and T.progeneius that I have no experience collecting or keeping.
Balaji

Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

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Shovelnose wrote: 09 Mar 2022, 14:16 ... I find the dorsal profile of T.malabricus and T.khudree to be quite different, I will mail you pics of what I see/think the difference is...
Can't thank you enough, Balaji. This is so much great knowledge in such an easy and condensed form.

So the nominal malabaricus I got from Wesley Wong in Aug 2015 is then khudree. Took 7 years. We'll leave it at that. Thank you!

The nominal khudree (which passed) we'll leave as khudree.

Why not post your photos here? Are they too big?

Thank you so very much for the info on the Indian Tor.

I got a nominal progeneious from Wesley as well. It doesn't look like any other Tor I have kept or seen. Its early photo from 2015-2016 is in the thumbnail for the video above "Feb 2022 The 6 smaller mahseer two of which were bought as malabaricus". ... Never seen anyone else keeping one. It is currently around 2.5ft / 75cm in the 25K gal, along with the malabaricus-turned-khudree who's found its true identity after 7 years of error / uncertainty.

So true malabaricus is a smaller mahseer, topping out at 1ft? Didn't know this. Also, I wonder why Jibran never told me / us about the obvious and helpful-for-ID black rays on true malabaricus... Is he of different opinion or is this trait not believed by some to reliably ID the malabaricus?
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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

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I'm shocked our red devils fed on ants - I thought formic acid made ants not palatable or worse... So far, it's been about a week and we see no ill effects on the red devils from ant consumption. They are as perky, brazen, and hungry as ever.

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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

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Viktor Jarikov wrote: 10 Mar 2022, 01:39
Why not post your photos here? Are they too big?
Oh no, I just didn't want to photobomb your thread. Besides, they're not good pics anyway. :icon-redface: :icon-lol:
Viktor Jarikov wrote: 10 Mar 2022, 01:39 I got a nominal progeneious from Wesley as well. It doesn't look like any other Tor I have kept or seen. Its early photo from 2015-2016 is in the thumbnail for the video above "Feb 2022 The 6 smaller mahseer two of which were bought as malabaricus". ... Never seen anyone else keeping one. It is currently around 2.5ft / 75cm in the 25K gal, along with the malabaricus-turned-khudree who's found its true identity after 7 years of error / uncertainty.
Which video is this? I'm unable to locate it.

Image

Image

A T.khudree from the Krishna river (2017), I suspected this to be a hybrid as the collection spot was downstream of the hatchery. The ones I keep now are from Karnataka and I am hoping they are not hybrids. They are well settled and do show the blue finnage on and off, I'll take a few pics and post them here tomorrow.

Image

Image

A couple of weird specimens from 2015, I can't really say what they are but it looks like there's a bit of T.tor in there somewhere. These are from the region (southern Maharashtra) where I saw the misshapen fish.

Image

Image

I think this could be T.mosal. I have similar looking fish from Assam (pictured above) and Arunachal Pradesh (will add pics tomorrow), there are minute differences between the two.

Image

Image

Image

Tor chelynoides
Balaji

Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

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As soon as fake wood was introduced, red devil juvies started fighting like never before... Thank goodness, this fighting subsided over the course of the day.

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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

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Image

Image

Tor malabaricus


Image

Image

Tor khudree
Balaji

Vicar: It's about this letter you sent me regarding my insurance claim.
Devious: Oh, yeah, well, you see, it's just that we're not, as yet, totally satisfied with the grounds of your claim.
Vicar: But it says something about filling my mouth in with cement.
Devious: Oh well, that's just insurance jargon, you know.
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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

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Re: My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Thank you so greatly Balaji for this continuing teaching. Very much appreciated. It's so good to see the assured Tor malabaricus and Tor khudree and their differences.
Shovelnose wrote: 11 Mar 2022, 15:40 Which video is this? I'm unable to locate it.
Here are some visuals on the progeneious. If I recall right, you had said you don't know anything about this mahseer, so I am not sure if you can confirm or refute the nominal ID:

Aug 2015:
Mahseer Tor progenius.JPG

Dec 2016:
Mar 2017:
Jan 2019:
Feb 2021:
100_9610.JPG
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