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Congrats on the L397s

bekateen wrote:... neither the fish nor their progeny will be used now or in the future for profit or gain...

I'm sure by the time these fish breed, the cost of raising and maintaining the parents as well as the fry would negate any sale price that you would charge.

The new fish are settling in. I removed the grapevine from the tank since it was getting so slimy. I had hoped the Panaqolus would keep the wood clean by eating the slime, but given that these fish are so expensive I decided this wasn't the time to experiment. So out went the grapevine and in went a few well-seasoned old pieces of wood which I've used before. Not all have sunk yet; two still float on the surface. Likewise my new oak caves haven't sunk yet either.

The tank is relatively barren because I have not yet transferred the extra 14 L397s to my friends and I don't want the fish capturing effort to be difficult. Once their fish are out, I'll clutter up the tank with more wood and stones.

The fish are eating well; you can see the sweet potato and zucchini chewed to pieces.

Also in this tank are a single common BN, a single (almost year-old) Panaqolus maccus juvie from my own stock, and my adult albino corys. Last night was their first live black worm meal in two weeks, and now the tank is covered with a few hundred cory eggs (look on the upper right side pane of glass, and on the HOB intake tube on the left side of the tank)... Food for the plecos.

The other photo shows a collection of fins belonging to several L397s, at least one P. compta, and the P. maccus (in the cave).

Cheers, Eric

bekateen wrote: (all three of us had to sign letters declaring that we would not use these fish in ANY commercial fashion for gain or profit)

But if yours happen to breed, and you give them away to someone *cough*me*cough* and THEY sell them off.... it's okay! You didn't use YOURS for commercial gain or profit, but I didn't sign any such statement.

Seems like my destiny is all worked out! Thanks @Ltygress, I don't know what I'd do without you!

Cheers, Eric

LMAO!

Congrats on the safe arrival! I too use the grapevine wood. But initially found the same problem looks very unsightly plus I wasn't so sure it was good for them. So I removed it. I recently bought some and use with bark taken off. Doesn't go as bad as it does with bark on. Looks very nice in the tank too. Excuse the can of larger in pic. ;) with the recent weather and water changes I polished that off too

Teresa, your grapevine looks like it's sandblasted and possibly oven-dried. That's how most companies (which I know) remove the bark and treat the wood. My grapevine was taken straight out of a vineyard, literally, at the time when an entire vineyard was torn out for replanting new vines. Even though it's been in the sun for several months during the winter, spring and early summer, it's horrendously slimy. I've since removed my grapevine so as to not risk these precious fish, and I'll let the grapevine age more in the 100-110F summer sun. Maybe I'll try it again in my tanks in the autumn.

Cheers, Eric

The one I originally used was bone dry throughout, still went slimy. One of the reasons I moved it when my group were very young.

Dang, these L397 are hungry buggers and some are darn-right mean. These guys (along with the Peckoltia compta) are eating an entire (4-5 inch long) zucchini fruit (peeled) in less than 48 hours, not to mention about 1/3 of a medium-sized (5-6 inch long) sweet potato and a steamed clam on the half shell in the same time!

New Panaqolus sp. L397 feasting on raw zucchini




Panaqolus L397 juveniles eating steamed clams




A few of them are trying to stake out territories, even at their small size:

Aggressive behavior in juvenile Panaqolus sp. L397



I was trying to keep the tank bottom somewhat open so that I could easily capture the fish at the end of the week for delivery to the other owners, but after seeing this, more wood went into the tank. Now there's 3 caves, 5-6 bamboo pipes, and 5 pieces of wood.

Cheers, Eric

Here's the final tank setup for these fish. Wanted more rocks and wood, but tank floor is getting crowded. Also, one piece of wood just won't sink (left side, top (obviously))! I'm going to stop decorating for now and just let the plecos grow.
Will decide later about tetras, dwarf cichlids or other upper-water tankmates (from here: Cichlid tankmates for Peckoltia compta and Panaqolus L397?).

Cheers, Eric

Oh boy! Oh boy! Oh boy! After a big (90%) water change today, I found a dad on wigglers!

Just one year and 3 weeks after getting them home. Yay!

Better photos and video to follow.

Cheers, Eric

Great news

Thank you

First baby video :

Direct link to YouTube video: Panaqolus sp. L397 on wigglers

I found two wigglers swimming free in the 75 gal tank, so I took all the remaining caved fry from dad ahead of schedule. I could not catch the fry loose in the tank, but I recovered 36 fry in the cave. I transferred these 36 (EDIT: On later count, it worked out to 38 fry transferred to the basket) to a fry basket setup as follows:

I'm using the same setup for these L397 as I used for : A net-sided basket suspended at water-level in parents' tank, in close proximity to a strong water current (in this case, in front of the outflow from an Aqueon QuietFlow 75 HOB filter). To the basket I added a few dry oak leaves, some pre-soaked and some dry twigs and pieces of wood, a large amount of mulm from the parents' filter intake (hopefully providing beneficial digestive bacteria for the fry as they start to eat), and some shredded bits of raw sweet potato. The wigglers still have lots of yolk, but in my experience with P. maccus I found the wigglers started chewing on things long before they finished their yolk.

Cheers, Eric
Direct link to YouTube video: Panaqolus sp. L397 wigglers in fry basket

That was fast, Congrats!

Very jealous. Does the line start here for "adoption"?

Thanks, YSR50!

YSR50 wrote: 14 Aug 2017, 04:37Does the line start here for "adoption"?

Ha! You can imagine how many requests I've received... not just today, but going back to the day I brought the fish to the USA!

First things first:

1. I have to raise them successfully. (yeah, there's always that)
2. Once the fish are big enough, I need to consult with USFWS. My permit to import was under the terms that I not sell, barter, trade any fish I obtained OR THEIR OFFSPRING for profit. Given that realistically there won't be any profit by the time I raise them to size (feeding them fresh veggies and a mix of mussels, clams, and shrimp, all human-food-grade), I just need to work out with USFW what they will allow me to do. I appreciated and respected the USFWS people who worked with me, very patiently, to bring these fish stateside. I want to honor my agreement with them.
3. Once sales methods are arranged, I have to go down the list of people whom I've promised fish to, going back to July 2016.
4. THEN AND ONLY THEN can I start selling publicly. When fish are available, I will be posting it here. Stay active on this site if you want to get a chance.

Cheers, Eric

Congrats! Looking forward to your hearing about your experience raising the fry.

Congrats Eric!
(BUT my eyes have been on your 134 all the time...)

Hmm.. so you offer L397 a lot of meaty food too? I thought that they tend to get bloated by that?

Linus_Cello wrote: 14 Aug 2017, 14:42Congrats! Looking forward to your hearing about your experience raising the fry.

Thanks, and will do. I'm hoping that they are about like P. maccus. Let's see how many I can get to size.

nabulus wrote: 15 Aug 2017, 00:44Hmm.. so you offer L397 a lot of meaty food too? I thought that they tend to get bloated by that?

All in moderation. They always have access to wood. I give them fresh sweet potato about every 3-4 days, and I leave it in the tank for at least two days before removing leftovers. So they usually go 2 days without sweet potato. Once a week, sometimes less, I put boiled clams, mussels or shrimp in the tank. They eat all vigorously. If you give them live black worms, they will scarf that too. I've never observed bloat in any of my plecos, although some of my maccus have so gotten fat that I feared they were bloated (but they weren't... they went on to lay eggs later).

nabulus wrote: 15 Aug 2017, 00:40 Congrats Eric!
(BUT my eyes have been on your 134 all the time...)

Thanks. And now that the L397 have spawned, I too have my eyes on the compta... and on the albomaculatus in same tank. But the compta are still too small I think.

Wish us luck!

Cheers, Eric

bekateen wrote: 15 Aug 2017, 00:50
Thanks. And now that the L397 have spawned, I too have my eyes on the compta... and on the albomaculatus in same tank. But the compta are still too small I think.

Wish us luck!

Cheers, Eric

Congrats Eric!

what size are the Compta?

Jobro wrote: 15 Aug 2017, 10:21Congrats Eric!

what size are the Compta?

Thanks Johannes. The compta are about 3" TL.

Cheers, Eric

Congratulations !

bekateen wrote: 14 Aug 2017, 06:35 Thanks, YSR50!

YSR50 wrote: 14 Aug 2017, 04:37Does the line start here for "adoption"?

Ha! You can imagine how many requests I've received... not just today, but going back to the day I brought the fish to the USA!

First things first:

1. I have to raise them successfully. (yeah, there's always that)
2. Once the fish are big enough, I need to consult with USFWS. My permit to import was under the terms that I not sell, barter, trade any fish I obtained OR THEIR OFFSPRING for profit. Given that realistically there won't be any profit by the time I raise them to size (feeding them fresh veggies and a mix of mussels, clams, and shrimp, all human-food-grade), I just need to work out with USFW what they will allow me to do. I appreciated and respected the USFWS people who worked with me, very patiently, to bring these fish stateside. I want to honor my agreement with them.
3. Once sales methods are arranged, I have to go down the list of people whom I've promised fish to, going back to July 2016.
4. THEN AND ONLY THEN can I start selling publicly. When fish are available, I will be posting it here. Stay active on this site if you want to get a chance.

Cheers, Eric

Just a question, but have you considered that you may need to consider selling some "VERY expensive bagged water" with a free fish included as a bonus?

Fundulopanchax76 wrote: 15 Aug 2017, 16:35Congratulations !

Thank you

pleco_breeder wrote: 15 Aug 2017, 17:32Just a question, but have you considered that you may need to consider selling some "VERY expensive bagged water" with a free fish included as a bonus?

Great effort - I had missed this until now!

Jools

Why are these so strange laws in USA ? How can you buy something and then not to have right to sell it ?! Maybe you have to have registered firm for that ?

Good question! The laws may sound strange, but they aren't. The USA law states that if people are going to import fish for profit, they have to have a license to do it (which costs money) and they have to pay certain import fees and wildlife inspection fees (which cost more money).

However, if you a just a citizen who wants to import a pet, you do not need to have a license and you do not need to pay the import fees. So if I say the fish are my pets (which they are obviously), but then sell them after returning to the USA, then I am a seller and should have paid for an import license and paid the import fees.

I don't think the law is meant to completely ban me from ever selling the fish or their juvies, because the law says I can't sell, barter, trade, or otherwise exchange them for profit, which is what businesses do. I just have to figure out how the law defines "for profit" as opposed to "not for profit."

Cheers, Eric

bekateen wrote: 15 Aug 2017, 16:12
Thanks Johannes. The compta are about 3" TL.

Cheers, Eric

Sounds big enough to me