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Some clearer photos today, collected a couple for a close look at development. Fed frozen daphnia today and they really liked it

Theyre looking like mini hoplos more and more

Getting bigger!

cute

The people in Ontario are lucky - one day you will sell them and that will be their opportunity

They look great!

Very cool.

Ive got a second spawn today.

Again, on a floating anubias leaf, and a cold front moved through last night. Seems to be the consistent factor.

Congratulations!

That's so cool

Moved them to an aerated container with tannins and RO water

Not the happiest of updates.

The 2nd batch totally fungused over, despite alder cones and almond leaves.

Had a lot of smaller fry fail to thrive of the first batch, only one really grew, and ive lost all but that one large sibling.

Hes been moved to one of my smaller community tanks now to finish growing until he's large enough to join his parents.

Very inspiring thread!

Ive had 2 spawns this last week have some babies hatched and waiting on the others to hatch too.

And the other guy has grown much larger, he's almost large enough to move to the adult tank just needs another half inch to go before then

Two spawns in one week? That's terrific! Do you think there was a specific trigger, or are they just busy as can be now that they've discovered what sex is?

Cheers,
Eric

bekateen wrote: 27 Jun 2021, 22:31 Two spawns in one week? That's terrific! Do you think there was a specific trigger, or are they just busy as can be now that they've discovered what sex is?

Cheers,
Eric

Ive noticed every spawn thus far has either been right along with a pretty intensive rain or storm event. That's been the consistent denominator each time. 3 times has been on a floating anubias leaf that I left in the tank, but the 4th spawn has been on a water lettuce leaf due to no anubias leaf available.

Group has 2 females, so assuming both spawns the same week were from separate mothers.

I will say though, their eggs are super prone to fungus! I lost spawn #2 all to fungus. Spawn 3 had about 75% eggs fungused, and spawn 4 is about 25% fungus so far, despite tannins.

I am wanting to get me some m blue to see if it makes a difference with them.

The fungus may be a pH thing or oxygenation. Just spit-balling though.

Good luck,
Eric

MissNoodle wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 05:12 I am wanting to get me some m blue to see if it makes a difference with them.

Be carefull with the stuff. As far as I know, catfish are rather sensitive to it themselves.

further it is suspected of promoting cancer in humans. If I remember correctly you have a son who sometimes has his hands in a tank. This is a reason to prevent this in a tank dosed with this stuff.

bekateen wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 06:16 The fungus may be a pH thing or oxygenation. Just spit-balling though.

Good luck,
Eric

I have them in a container of RO water with a pH regulator to keep pH at 7 same as my tap so it's not a major change when they are transitioned back to my tap once older. Air stone on super high until they start hatching then it's lowered so it doesn't blow the fry around.

Bas Pels wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 07:32

MissNoodle wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 05:12 I am wanting to get me some m blue to see if it makes a difference with them.

Be carefull with the stuff. As far as I know, catfish are rather sensitive to it themselves.

further it is suspected of promoting cancer in humans. If I remember correctly you have a son who sometimes has his hands in a tank. This is a reason to prevent this in a tank dosed with this stuff.

My understanding with the m blue is you change out the water with it from the egg container the day before the eggs are due to hatch, at least how people use it with cories.

Going by a certain well known corydoras breeder, there's speculation that species that come from clear water or white water have better results using m blue rather than tannins, and given the tannins are not yielding much results for me with these guys, I'd like to try it out and see if there's a difference.

Of course, stuff can stay the heck off my hands, and since that incident with the kid he's not touched the tanks (he got grounded big time for when he did). Of course I'll be sure to remind him with using chemical treatments too. Just to be safe so he knows if he touches it, it could hurt him too.

Chances are indeed that what works for Corydoras might very well work for Holosternum.

Hi all,

MissNoodle wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 14:10 I have them in a container of RO water with a pH regulator to keep pH at 7 same as my tap so it's not a major change when they are transitioned back to my tap once older.

I think that might be your problem. If you have hard tap water? I'd just add that to get to a conductivity value, I use about 100 microS. (~65 ppm TDS) and I'd also still add some tannins via Oak (Quercus) leaves etc.

I'd stop using the "pH regulator". I'm going to assume it is a phosphate buffer (di-sodium phosphate and sodium hydrogen phosphate).

Buffering and pH stability is quite a complicated subject area and nearly all the comments made on fish-keeping forums (I know this is a forum), by LFS and by the manufacturers of aquarium buffers are either totally wrong or totally irrelevant.

cheers Darrel

dw1305 wrote: 29 Jun 2021, 15:22 Hi all,

MissNoodle wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 14:10 I have them in a container of RO water with a pH regulator to keep pH at 7 same as my tap so it's not a major change when they are transitioned back to my tap once older.

I think that might be your problem. If you have hard tap water? I'd just add that to get to a conductivity value, I use about 100 microS. (~65 ppm TDS) and I'd also still add some tannins via Oak (Quercus) leaves etc.

I'd stop using the "pH regulator". I'm going to assume it is a phosphate buffer (di-sodium phosphate and sodium hydrogen phosphate).

Buffering and pH stability is quite a complicated subject area and nearly all the comments made on fish-keeping forums (I know this is a forum), by LFS and by the manufacturers of aquarium buffers are either totally wrong or totally irrelevant.

cheers Darrel

I wouldnt use the pH regulator if I didn't have to unfortunately.

My street did work on the pipes and something contaminated the water supply, crashed my pH down to 6.4 from 7.6 but it creeps back up to 7.6 after 7 days by next water change, fish can't handle water changes without dying from that. I lost a whole tank of fish when it first happened and didn't know.

So in order to keep my pH stable, I have to keep the pH from going all over the place. If my pH didn't jump by the time water changes are due, I wouldn't bother. But, it's very heartbreaking to lose a full tank of fish and don't want to do that again. I lost all but 3 pygmy cories. All of my microdevario kubotai, 15 pygmy cories... gone in a water change.
Another fish keeper a couple blocks down is having same problems raising fry as well, it's causing him problems too, though the city insists the water is unchanged. But using the test kits, we can say it has.

It works for my adult fish, but whatever is contaminating my water kills fry that previously thrived in my tap and kills my neocaridina shrimp, so I started using RO for my fry and shrimp and maintain the same pH for easier transitions when they're old enough to transition back to tap.

I actually have somewhat soft water, GH 120ppm pH6.4-7.6 KH 89.5ppm.

But even a small amount of tap mixed with the RO kills fry as well, tried it with some tetra fry and lost all of them.

MissNoodle wrote: 30 Jun 2021, 21:25I wouldnt use the pH regulator if I didn't have to unfortunately.

My street did work on the pipes and something contaminated the water supply, crashed my pH down to 6.4 from 7.6 but it creeps back up to 7.6 after 7 days by next water change, fish can't handle water changes without dying from that. I lost a whole tank of fish when it first happened and didn't know.

Sorry you lost fish, but I need to raise the question as to whether pH was the cause. I have some tanks at pH 4. When I do water changes, the pH rises to 6. No deaths and sometimes fish spawn. It's not that I try to do this, it's just happens.

Of course, some fish species are more sensitive to pH changes than are others, but in general, a pH change of 1 point is generally pretty safe (if water isn't too hard).

So I'm wondering, 1) What species died? And 2) what else might have been a cause?

Best,
Eric

bekateen wrote: 01 Jul 2021, 04:59

MissNoodle wrote: 30 Jun 2021, 21:25I wouldnt use the pH regulator if I didn't have to unfortunately.

My street did work on the pipes and something contaminated the water supply, crashed my pH down to 6.4 from 7.6 but it creeps back up to 7.6 after 7 days by next water change, fish can't handle water changes without dying from that. I lost a whole tank of fish when it first happened and didn't know.

Sorry you lost fish, but I need to raise the question as to whether pH was the cause. I have some tanks at pH 4. When I do water changes, the pH rises to 6. No deaths and sometimes fish spawn. It's not that I try to do this, it's just happens.

Of course, some fish species are more sensitive to pH changes than are others, but in general, a pH change of 1 point is generally pretty safe (if water isn't too hard).

So I'm wondering, 1) What species died? And 2) what else might have been a cause?

Best,
Eric

It went from 7.6 to 6.4 within a water change, fish started spiraling and dying within an hour. Water dechlorinated, etc. Normal standard water change, nothing was different. Change the water every 7 days, only thing off was the pH suddenly when it used to be the same every time, until they did plumbing work on the street. It's been months after and my pH is still all over the place. It's too high after 1 week of sitting so when refilling the fish react.

It was a tank of nano fish, so more delicate. 7 microdevario kubotai and 15 corydoras pygmaeus all dead within an hour of that water change.

The larger fish flash, but don't drop dead.

There was nothing else out of the norm except the pH change suddenly.

It could be pH, but also some things (e.g., sulfide gas, chlorine levels) aren't measurable with standard test kits.

Eric

Hi all,

MissNoodle wrote: 30 Jun 2021, 21:25 I wouldn't use the pH regulator if I didn't have to unfortunately.

My street did work on the pipes and something contaminated the water supply, crashed my pH down to 6.4 from 7.6 but it creeps back up to 7.6 after 7 days by next water change, fish can't handle water changes without dying from that. I lost a whole tank of fish when it first happened and didn't know.

MissNoodle wrote: 30 Jun 2021, 21:25 So in order to keep my pH stable, I have to keep the pH from going all over the place. If my pH didn't jump by the time water changes are due, I wouldn't bother. But, it's very heartbreaking to lose a full tank of fish and don't want to do that again. I lost all but 3 pygmy cories. All of my microdevario kubotai, 15 pygmy cories... gone in a water change.
Another fish keeper a couple blocks down is having same problems raising fry as well, it's causing him problems too, though the city insists the water is unchanged. But using the test kits, we can say it has.

It works for my adult fish, but whatever is contaminating my water kills fry that previously thrived in my tap and kills my neocaridina shrimp, so I started using RO for my fry and shrimp and maintain the same pH for easier transitions when they're old enough to transition back to tap.

I actually have somewhat soft water, GH 120ppm pH6.4-7.6 KH 89.5ppm.

But even a small amount of tap mixed with the RO kills fry as well, tried it with some tetra fry and lost all of them.

I'm really sorry for your losses, and I know that fish keepers in the USA have to contend with tap water that would be illegal in Europe, but I'm pretty sure Eric (@bekateen is right), and it isn't the pH change that is causing the problems.

MissNoodle wrote: 30 Jun 2021, 21:25I actually have somewhat soft water, GH 120ppm pH6.4-7.6 KH 89.5ppm.

You would need to use another source to add some dGH/dKH.

If you don't mind a bit of variability "oyster shell chick grit" works or you can make a bespoke mix from potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3), calcium chloride (CaCl2.6H2O) and magnesium sulphate (MgSO4.7H2O) details are at <"James's Planted Tank">.

cheers Darrel

dw1305 wrote: 02 Jul 2021, 16:43 Hi all,

MissNoodle wrote: 30 Jun 2021, 21:25 I wouldn't use the pH regulator if I didn't have to unfortunately.

My street did work on the pipes and something contaminated the water supply, crashed my pH down to 6.4 from 7.6 but it creeps back up to 7.6 after 7 days by next water change, fish can't handle water changes without dying from that. I lost a whole tank of fish when it first happened and didn't know.

MissNoodle wrote: 30 Jun 2021, 21:25 So in order to keep my pH stable, I have to keep the pH from going all over the place. If my pH didn't jump by the time water changes are due, I wouldn't bother. But, it's very heartbreaking to lose a full tank of fish and don't want to do that again. I lost all but 3 pygmy cories. All of my microdevario kubotai, 15 pygmy cories... gone in a water change.
Another fish keeper a couple blocks down is having same problems raising fry as well, it's causing him problems too, though the city insists the water is unchanged. But using the test kits, we can say it has.

It works for my adult fish, but whatever is contaminating my water kills fry that previously thrived in my tap and kills my neocaridina shrimp, so I started using RO for my fry and shrimp and maintain the same pH for easier transitions when they're old enough to transition back to tap.

I actually have somewhat soft water, GH 120ppm pH6.4-7.6 KH 89.5ppm.

But even a small amount of tap mixed with the RO kills fry as well, tried it with some tetra fry and lost all of them.

I'm really sorry for your losses, and I know that fish keepers in the USA have to contend with tap water that would be illegal in Europe, but I'm pretty sure Eric (@bekateen is right), and it isn't the pH change that is causing the problems.

MissNoodle wrote: 30 Jun 2021, 21:25I actually have somewhat soft water, GH 120ppm pH6.4-7.6 KH 89.5ppm.

You would need to use another source to add some dGH/dKH.

If you don't mind a bit of variability "oyster shell chick grit" works or you can make a bespoke mix from potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3), calcium chloride (CaCl2.6H2O) and magnesium sulphate (MgSO4.7H2O) details are at <"James's Planted Tank">.

cheers Darrel

I use Seachem Equilibrium to boost GH with the RO water

Spawn #5 last night Spawn #4 only had one fertile egg, go figure. It hatched and it's with the slightly older bunch from Spawn #3 which have been doing good with no losses, all growing steady and eating very well.


I do agree there is something else with the water that contributed to the issue, something that isn't tested for, something that either coincided with the pH crash or caused the pH crash and I dont know what. Otherwise if it was just a pH problem, the fry would survive using the pH regulator in my tap and so would my shrimp, but alas even a small portion of tap wipes out all my fry within a week and kills my shrimp. And city doesn't care or know, so I won't get answers.

So I have no choice but to buy RO from the lfs, remineralize it with Equilibrium, and use the pH regulator on all my tanks to keep things stable for less stress on my adult fish.

Hi all,

MissNoodle wrote: 02 Jul 2021, 19:43 I use Seachem Equilibrium to boost GH with the RO water

That is fine for dGH.

Seachem won't tell you exactly what compounds are in "Equilibrium", but they are calcium chloride (CaCl2.6H20) and magnesium sulphate (MgSO4.7H2O). Details are at "UKAPS:Alternatives to Seachem Equilibrium".

I'd still like to add a minimal amount of carbonate hardness (dKH), via potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3), it is cheap to buy as food grade and you would only need ~ 2 dKH.

MissNoodle wrote: 02 Jul 2021, 19:47 and use the pH regulator on all my tanks to keep things stable for less stress on my adult fish.

I wouldn't get hung up on pH stability, the pH is never stable in soft water.

Because you keep planted tanks you would naturally changes in pH during the diurnal cycle as the ratios of oxygen (O2) and CO2 change during photosynthesis. This natural process is actually being stopped by the pH buffer.

cheers Darrel