PlanetCatfish.com

So, based on the Seachem information, combined with:
http://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/10032 ... -ppm-meq-l
2.8 * 5 meq/l = 14 dKH
But we are not using 34g/l but, say, 5g/l = 1/7 * 14 -> 2 dKH increase.
I'm guessing the CO2 level is above 0 and below the "typical wanted for planted tanks", so say around 5-10 ppm, and KH wasn't zero to begin with.
http://www.aquascapingworld.com/magazin ... nship.html
According to the above table, the pH will rise by 0.2-0.4 units. In most cases, that will be much smaller change than you'd see from other natural changes (unless KH is already really high, but here the relative change is greater).

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Mats

MatsP wrote:According to the above table, the pH will rise by 0.2-0.4 units. In most cases, that will be much smaller change than you'd see from other natural changes

Yes, it was never going to change by much, but still, a rise of 0.2-0.4 units is not insignificant, and importantly, can be entirely avoided.

Most would prefer to choose that route.
It can cost 10X as much for plain rock salt packaged as "Aquarium Salt". Why pay so much when the chemically identical alternatives are so much cheaper?

why first spend hundreds of dollars/euro's/pounds on fish and then when the fish get sick pinch the pennies when it comes to medications?

that's like buying a big ol' car and a big ol' house for Grandpa, but once the poor bastard gets the big C and has no money, you refuse to pay the hospital bill....
this mindset is alien to me.

if the good stuff is cheap, OK, but going for cheap just because of cheap; while spending to much on the fishes?
mindboggling


if my fish get sick I'll get the stuff that makes them better
if it's cheap. fine
if it's not cheap at all...

my fish need to get better!
the rest is really not important

apistomaster wrote:It can cost 10X as much for plain rock salt packaged as "Aquarium Salt". Why pay so much when the chemically identical alternatives are so much cheaper?

sidguppy wrote: if the good stuff is cheap, OK, but going for cheap just because of cheap; while spending to much on the fishes?
mindboggling

Saving money at the expense of the fish wasn't really the point. The point was that sodium chloride cures fish, so why pay more for the stuff than you need to.

racoll made my point well enough that I have nothing more to say except they are your fish and you can do what you want to them. I don't care.

This is a useful thread to some...lets stay on topic. Back to the Meds themselves please.

Thank you
Birger

I'm quiet interested in this post as I have just started keeping discus in with my plecos.
It has been recommend to me to use a wormer once a month.
Fluke solve and kusuri.
Are these ok to use with plecos?
I also am interested in seeing what people keep just in case.
I have king british white spot treatment from a outbreak when I first got the tank.
Is it worth having melafix and pimafix incase as well?
Does any one have any other suggestions that should be stocked.

john82 wrote:I'm quiet interested in this post as I have just started keeping discus in with my plecos.
It has been recommend to me to use a wormer once a month.
Fluke solve and kusuri.
Are these ok to use with plecos?

Absolutely fine with plecos. I've used both on my pleco tanks. I think it will be a bit unnecessary to medicate every month - I doubt it will hurt your fish, but it is eventually going to be expensive...

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Mats

Thanks mats.
How often would you recommend using the wormer?

john82 wrote:Thanks mats.
How often would you recommend using the wormer?

I tend to treat new fish (if I think it's needed). Once the fish are settled and treated, they shouldn't need treating. Note, I haven't kept discus, but I don't think they should need regular treating with antiworming medication.

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Mats

Cool I won't run off on a tangent then de worming all the time.
Cheers for your help

I specialize in keeping and breeding wild type Discus and plecos.
I normally treat them for about 3 weeks simultaneously with flubendazole, Praziquantel and metroniadozle.
This is my way of establishing a known baseline as most exporters and importers begin a similar regime it is not usually long enough to treat latent hatching eggs or cysts.
I usually change 50% of of the quarantine tank's water every 4th day and I replace only the amount of the medication I have removed with the water changes.
These three medications do not seem to cause any undue stress on wild Discus and Plecos.
Here is a pair of Nhamunda Blues guarding their first spawn a week ago. Eggs are on the end glass.
An out of focus Hypancistrus debilittera edging in to eat discus eggs.

john82 wrote:Cool I won't run off on a tangent then de worming all the time.
Cheers for your help

Other than when you first receive wild Discus or Plecos should you treat them only
if they show symptoms later on, say a year later, then go ahead and repeat the initial treatment regime.
I have lined up a dozen F1 Tefe Green Discus which should be ready within two months and am really excited.
I will eventually be raising wild type Discus of two different species and a few pleco species. Something I have been working towards for years.

MatsP wrote:

bunnyrabbit wrote:I just read the article briefly and the test of the water and it said that the "store" added 1/2 to 3/4 cups per 5 gallons of water. Seems a little high. I think it is recommended that the dose is 1 rounded tablespoon for every 5 gallon as a "stress reducer".

If you actually read the whole area where that was mentioned you'll realize it was considered BAD!

I think the author of that articely would recommend (for true freshwater fish) zero sodium & chloride additives. Which I agree with as a general "normal situation" setup.

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Mats

Thanks. I'll read the area again. I just thought that at 1/2 to 3/4 cups / 5 gallons was a tad high. It was recommended to me when my plecos got velvet that I use salt for treatment. Alas , I never got to try on this aquarium and case as my colony was wiped out over a week or two.

bunnyrabbit wrote:

MatsP wrote:

bunnyrabbit wrote:I just read the article briefly and the test of the water and it said that the "store" added 1/2 to 3/4 cups per 5 gallons of water. Seems a little high. I think it is recommended that the dose is 1 rounded tablespoon for every 5 gallon as a "stress reducer".

If you actually read the whole area where that was mentioned you'll realize it was considered BAD!

I think the author of that articely would recommend (for true freshwater fish) zero sodium & chloride additives. Which I agree with as a general "normal situation" setup.

--
Mats

Thanks. I'll read the area again. I just thought that at 1/2 to 3/4 cups / 5 gallons was a tad high. It was recommended to me when my plecos got velvet that I use salt for treatment. Alas , I never got to try on this aquarium and case as my colony was wiped out over a week or two.

It was because of reasons like this that I adopted a preemptive treatment to begin immediately after I receive wild fish that I use a cocktail of medications except salt.

Does anyone on this thread have any opinions on UV sterilizers? Are they useful in disease prevention or treatment at all? Thanks for any input!
Dave

My opinion is that they should never be used in conjunction with any drugs used to treat fish diseases or parasites because of the photochemical reactions that occur can degrade some meds and turn others toxic. I would only use UV when treatments have been completed and most of the medication has been removed by water changes and filtration through activated carbon.
They are most useful when incorporated into a shared filter system serving many interconnected tanks.
Use 4 or 6 time more than the general manufacturer's recommendations for truly effective sterilizing effects. This is because many organisms are resistant to UV and the UV lamps' output diminishes fairly quickly and therefore to get reasonable working life from a given wattage of bulbs they should remain at an effective level when they are approaching 50% of of their new output. This varies with the type of source lamps used. T-5 fluorescent UV irradiation lamps should be good for 6 to 12 months depending on how large the system design fudge factor is allowed.
I am making recommendations based more on professional aquaculture requirements.
If all you want is better algae bloom control then much less intensity is needed from the UV lights.
Opinions are likely to vary greatly on this question.

Thanks Larry!

apistomaster wrote:I specialize in keeping and breeding wild type Discus and plecos.
I normally treat them for about 3 weeks simultaneously with flubendazole, Praziquantel and metroniadozle.
This is my way of establishing a known baseline as most exporters and importers begin a similar regime it is not usually long enough to treat latent hatching eggs or cysts.
I usually change 50% of of the quarantine tank's water every 4th day and I replace only the amount of the medication I have removed with the water changes.
These three medications do not seem to cause any undue stress on wild Discus and Plecos.
Here is a pair of Nhamunda Blues guarding their first spawn a week ago. Eggs are on the end glass.
An out of focus Hypancistrus debilittera edging in to eat discus eggs.

"Flubendazole, Praziquantel and Metronidale" will always be my first line of defence. They are good for eradicating internal, external, eggs/cyst for parasites and worms. If you have kept discus in the past or present you would know the pain. I have used that formula for hypans and discus and it does not cause any stress on the fish. Keep in mind that procedure was done as a precautionary measure. I treat my pleco's (lower xingu hypans, L66, L260, L201, L46's, L450, L134, L333 and BN's )as soon as i received them from a local hobbyist and importer.

Thanks Larry!

NICE DISCUS! Makes me want to keep wild discus.

A few reputable company sell the "FPM" as an anti-parasite combo.

Cheers,

My F1 Nhamunda Blues have finally formed a breeding pair which has spawned twice and it looks like a couple more pairs are getting close.
It will be a challenge to juggle my pleco breeding set ups enough to make room for these Blue Discus pairs plus I will be getting some F1 Tefe Green juveniles from another Discus breeding friend.
I am a bit burnt out with my fish breeding projects and would love to take this season off to do nothing but fly fish for Trout.
It would go a long ways towards recharging my fish breeding batteries to be able to take a break but once you have a "fish farm" it is exceedingly difficult to put it on the shelf for long.

What are the commonly 'sold as' medical names for Flubendazole, Praziquantel and Metronidale? IE, is there a powder that contains all three, etc? Sometimes the worst place to be is a fish store, trying to read up the bag of every medicine box, while trying to spell out one of those names to a frazzled partner at home.

Metronidazole is usually sold as is. One product is FishVet Metro MS which petsolutions.com sells but all well stocked LFS will have an equivalent which may be cheaper.
I use Hikari PraziPro.
I buy 10% flubendazole powder from Charles Harrison, www.inkmkr.com/fish.

just a question for the mods (and Jools)

why isn't this topic in "tank talk"?

it's surely no offtopic easy speako, but this is fish tank keeping to the serious limit

just my 2 euro's
;)