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S. waterloti? S. gobroni? Opinions please!

Jools

If these are wild caught is there a catch location or shipping point to go along

Birger

First one look like same that African exotics is selling with name Synodontis sp. criya, looks very much like S. waterloti. In African exotics they say that its from Guinea.

waterloti for the 1st one came to mind

I'm presuming the 2nd fish is a different specie?

I would also say the first one is a young waterloti?

Is the second one a wild fish too? Any idea on how big it is and where it where it originates?

Vespaglanis wrote:I would also say the first one is a young waterloti?

Is the second one a wild fish too? Any idea on how big it is and where it where it originates?

The lower one is from Guinea.

Jools

Any idea of the size of the specimen?

Pic 2 S.Rebeli ?

It seems similar to the ones BAS had recently (labelled as such)

The humeral process doesn't look right for rebeli. Its a strange colour isnt it?

Neither is S. waterloti.

Mark

Hello Mark

Why do you say the first one isnt a waterloti?

Chaps,

It would be most helpful if you could say why your are offering a particular ID. E.G. reference to a picture in a book, text description etc?

Cheers,

Jools

Hello Jools

The tentative ID of waterloti is based on:

The specimen is from Guinea and the closest described species from Guinea is waterloti
The specimen in your photo looks like a juvenile, and some juvenile waterloti can resemble the specimen in your photo, especially in terms of body shape, and the humeral process. The specimen you show is usually sold in the UK as juvenile waterloti. However, there are other specimens in the hobby that have adifferent pattern and particularly a different colour. It comes back to the old issue of which is the 'true' waterloti, bearing in mind there are possibly at least two 'forms', one much darker than the other (there is also a similar case in schoutedeni).
I am predominantly using Poll and my experience of these cats in the hobby, but I appreciate that Mark may have more pertinent info than I have on waterloti.

I'm assuming your specimen is a juvenile and we would really need to see it as an adult to be certain one way or another. It may also pay to look at the description of waterloti to see what it says about the colour of the specimens.

In terms of the other fish, I am not sure what it is. Doesnt appear to correspond to any described species. There are quite a few undescribed Syno's out there. It may also pay to see what the new book on Guinea fishes says (I havent bought it yet).

Cheers

I owned S. waterloti a while ago. My fish looked just like the Steve Pritchard photo in David Sands Catfish of the World. The fish had a deeper body then Jool's photo. Also the color pattern was more distinct. In the Aqualog Photo Collection there is a photo of S. waterloti "Guinea". That fish looks just like Jool's photo. I think we may be talking about two fish being called S. waterloti.

Mark

It may also pay to see what the new book on Guinea fishes says

For those of you wondering which this is
http://www.stevensimpsonbooks.com/?page ... 7ddde6165e
I have the first on its way and the second comes out in march and will be sent then....

This is also on the way to me
http://www.stevensimpsonbooks.com/?page ... 7ddde6165e

Hopefully they will give some insight into all these western species,thanks to HH for pointing them out to me

Birger

S. gobroni?

The second one is not that dissimilar from gobroni...the spotting on the head yes and the overall darker body color of other gobroni pictures found but Revision Des Synodontis Africains shows them as reaching 470mm SL...just a thought maybe this is a young one.

Can't wait to get those other books

Birger

Hi Mark - Yes, as I said there are two 'forms' of waterloti, which are probably two species really. Please bear in mind that the specimen in Jool's image appears to be a small juvenile. As the fish grows it will bulk out but both forms of waterloti are still slender 'cigar shaped' species.

Birger - The second book you list I have both editions. They just use the drawings and info from Poll. I am ordering the Guinea ones when both are out (saving on postage!). I have seen a small gobroni (around 4 inch) and it still had the characteristic big extended head that the drawing in Poll shows. Based on that I'm certain the 2nd fish isnt a gobroni.

This is my Waterloti for comparison.

as a quick aside what species is the bit of fish behind this one i between the dorsal & adipose?

Juvenile Synodontis decorus

OK, so I've uploaded the first one as any views on this fellow then?


Jools

IMO it doesnt match any described species close enough for me to be able to give it a name. How big is it?

The.Dark.One wrote:IMO it doesnt match any described species close enough for me to be able to give it a name. How big is it?

I don't know as I didn't see the fish in person. Looking at the pic, 4" SL?

Jools

It doesnt really match anything exactly, but the closest is perhaps S. nigromaculatus (but that is not known from Guinea), or even perhaps a young S. obesus.

Perhaps Volume 2 of the Guinea book that is out soon will give us more clues.

The second fish does not seem to match any of the listed Guinea species. But how about S.ansorgii, the illustration in Poll shows similarities in shape, adipose and humeral process. Markings do not match, but Poll is not always that accurate on markings. And distribution is Guinea-Bissau.

Hi caudalis

I thought about ansorgii but ruled it out as in ansorgii the adipose fin is characteristically pointed posteriorly, with a straight line ventrally (this is an accurate reflection of the type specimen having seen an image of it). The Dorsal and Caudal don't look proportionally big enough either but I suppose it could be a juvenile?