My Public Aquarium: exhibit blues - how to make them?
Posted: 10 Sep 2011, 02:36
Hi All,
I am starting to put together the beginnings of my Public Aquarium. I've spent a lot of time over the last year reading everything that I could possibly find about big tanks or ponds with windows. The stickiest point is, of course, the window. I think I've more or less carefully considered and consulted, where I could, with professionals on the fish tanks made of fiberglass (mass produced and custom), acrylic, glass, concrete, stainless steel, aluminum, rubber liner, PE, plywood/wood, etc.
For the sake of a convenient (but limited) comparison, let us mostly focus on a roughly 700 US gal tank, something like 8’x4’x3’ of water. I aim this to be my smallest exhibit size.
(1) Glass: very expensive, around $3500-$4000, and very heavy. Breakable and breakable in an unsafe manner, unless tempered. Tempered glass is usually 30%-50% more expensive.
(2) Acrylic: even more expensive, $4000-$4500, up to $6000 (seen the show “Tanked”? – sure they can do anything for you if you are made of money). See the on-line price lists of companies like Fintastic (GA) and Tyde Pool (CA). Acrylic has the advantage of having the best and strongest seams - if properly made and maintained, the seams are never expected to leak.
(2a) Polycarbonate can be mentioned here but I know of no polycarbonate tanks. Only windows. From what I was told, these windows are approx. functionally the same as acrylic. Although some claim they are more scratchable than acrylic, others say they are not.
(3) Stainless steel+window: cannot find a precedent of a large tank described on the net and having a window. Projected to be as expensive as acrylic or even more – problem is not only the high price of the SS but also the length of time and the high labor intensity of the very slow welding process of SS. Do not have even a rough estimate though yet. Working with Al’s Custom Fab of Naples, FL on it.
(4) Concrete+window: this is a popular choice and, of course, a permanent and immobile construction. Examples: 2500 gal, 2 windows http://www.anythingfish.com/Todds%20ray ... shTank.htm
5000 gal, 2 windows http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... by-JohnPTC
2600 gal, our own ElTofi http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =5&t=32680
So, this has been done and more or less well described but only (in my search) by DIY-ers in US as well as by several UK companies (google “koi ponds with windows” – some of them are out of business already but all of them, strangely, are in UK). Waterproofed by epoxy, fiberglass, pool-type waterproof concrete, and other coatings, which I do not know what they contain, e.g., used by ElTofi. This option may come out to be less expensive, especially if I do it myself, perhaps, $1000-$1500 in materials and zero for my labor.
Yet, there is no assurance whatsoever that my constructions won't leak sooner or later – it’s likely too risky to be learning as you go, in my circumstance. On the other hand, I cannot find any professional who knows exactly how to and has experience in building above-ground ponds/pools with windows (apart from those who build for millionaires and even those are very rare).
I have to find someone who built local “real” Public Aquaria and/or underwater Zoo exhibits, I examined how they are put together but I don’t know what that thick rubber stuff is in which windows are usually embedded on both sides and I never spoke to anyone who built those exhibits. Big Public Aquaria usually have very thick concrete walls, like a foot or two thick. It’d be nice to find someone locally but even nationally may be acceptable.
As said, there are some in UK but that's no help - I don't think flying and hosting them here would be financially feasible; and the US materials differ from UK materials.
(5) Precast concrete+window: here are some quotes from OldCastle Precast: “... The 8'x4'x3'bottom and walls only would be $1000. The stainless steel frame, epoxy coating, bottom drain would be something we could fabricate in the structure but will require more time to get those prices. … 10'x5'x3' (1100 US gal) would be priced at $1844…. the 20'x10'x3' (6000 US gal) would be $5703 and would weigh ~22 tons.”
The problems are the same as with item 4 above. I’d have to waterproof and install the window. Learning as you go may not be good here.
(6) Plywood+window: been done, examples: 1700 gal one window http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/d ... tank_1.php
2400 gal one window and 8000 gal 2 windows : Ted built plywood tropical tanks in his backyard in Seattle http://www.anythingfish.com/images/Ted/ ... rIndex.htm
600 gal, one window, exceptionally well described http://www.jonolavsakvarium.com/eng_diy ... itres.html
Well, again, DIY. Not good for me right now. Besides, the longevity may not be there.
(7) Rubber liner+window: I’ve seen the pics of such pond-aquarium hybrids on the net but never came across how the liner+window seam is made waterproof. I can imagine a few options. But out of all ponds, I have the most experience with rubber liner ponds and I do not want to deal with them anymore. They are unsightly. Big fish puncture them and some chew them. The liner would have to be under a protective layer of something, e.g. concrete or acrylic sheeting, etc. I do not like it.
(8) Polyethylene or polypropelene, etc (PE): relatively cheap, big, fish-friendly tubs are available, e.g., $800 for 1000 US gal water storage tanks. Never found anyone putting a window in one of those. Strongest, least buckle-prone, and cheapest are the cylindrical tubs, which means the window will have to be curved. That’s a con. Would need a strong frame for the window and would have to be DIY/learn from your mistakes kind of a deal again. Not good.
(9) Aluminum: as discussed here and other i-net places, can be toxic to fish, not good. http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =+aluminum
(10) Finally, Fiberglass tubs+window: these are the front runners for my smallest exhibits -
Aquaticeco.com, near Orlando FL - only two sizes suitable for me, 8’x4’x3’, $2000, 8’x4’x2.5’ $1600
(EDIT Feb 24 2015, new URL http://pentairaes.com/tanks/show/all )
(EDIT Feb 8 2016: an informative new thread from MFK on these tanks http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... ws.646391/ )
These are mass-produced I think in Malaysia or Indonesia.
Interesting that others sell them 50% more expensive, e.g., the same 8’x4’x3’ is $3200 here http://www.fishfarmsupply.ca/mm5/mercha ... fiberglass
Dolphin Fiberglass Products, Homestead, FL - - http://www.aquaculturetanks.com/
Nice Company and nice owner, Jack Broyl. Spent a few hours with him. They cannot beat the above $2000 price for a 8’x4’x3’, the closest would be $2500-$3000 but can make any size and have the molds for many bigger tanks but they are all exponentially more expensive – see their nice on-line collections of photos and the price list.
That’s where we stand, folks. Does anybody have a time-tested experience with those fiberglass tubs+windows (front runners)? Also, please share grounded, helpful opinions and suggestions on anything foregoing.
Thanks much in advance.
Viktor
I am starting to put together the beginnings of my Public Aquarium. I've spent a lot of time over the last year reading everything that I could possibly find about big tanks or ponds with windows. The stickiest point is, of course, the window. I think I've more or less carefully considered and consulted, where I could, with professionals on the fish tanks made of fiberglass (mass produced and custom), acrylic, glass, concrete, stainless steel, aluminum, rubber liner, PE, plywood/wood, etc.
For the sake of a convenient (but limited) comparison, let us mostly focus on a roughly 700 US gal tank, something like 8’x4’x3’ of water. I aim this to be my smallest exhibit size.
(1) Glass: very expensive, around $3500-$4000, and very heavy. Breakable and breakable in an unsafe manner, unless tempered. Tempered glass is usually 30%-50% more expensive.
(2) Acrylic: even more expensive, $4000-$4500, up to $6000 (seen the show “Tanked”? – sure they can do anything for you if you are made of money). See the on-line price lists of companies like Fintastic (GA) and Tyde Pool (CA). Acrylic has the advantage of having the best and strongest seams - if properly made and maintained, the seams are never expected to leak.
(2a) Polycarbonate can be mentioned here but I know of no polycarbonate tanks. Only windows. From what I was told, these windows are approx. functionally the same as acrylic. Although some claim they are more scratchable than acrylic, others say they are not.
(3) Stainless steel+window: cannot find a precedent of a large tank described on the net and having a window. Projected to be as expensive as acrylic or even more – problem is not only the high price of the SS but also the length of time and the high labor intensity of the very slow welding process of SS. Do not have even a rough estimate though yet. Working with Al’s Custom Fab of Naples, FL on it.
(4) Concrete+window: this is a popular choice and, of course, a permanent and immobile construction. Examples: 2500 gal, 2 windows http://www.anythingfish.com/Todds%20ray ... shTank.htm
5000 gal, 2 windows http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... by-JohnPTC
2600 gal, our own ElTofi http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =5&t=32680
So, this has been done and more or less well described but only (in my search) by DIY-ers in US as well as by several UK companies (google “koi ponds with windows” – some of them are out of business already but all of them, strangely, are in UK). Waterproofed by epoxy, fiberglass, pool-type waterproof concrete, and other coatings, which I do not know what they contain, e.g., used by ElTofi. This option may come out to be less expensive, especially if I do it myself, perhaps, $1000-$1500 in materials and zero for my labor.
Yet, there is no assurance whatsoever that my constructions won't leak sooner or later – it’s likely too risky to be learning as you go, in my circumstance. On the other hand, I cannot find any professional who knows exactly how to and has experience in building above-ground ponds/pools with windows (apart from those who build for millionaires and even those are very rare).
I have to find someone who built local “real” Public Aquaria and/or underwater Zoo exhibits, I examined how they are put together but I don’t know what that thick rubber stuff is in which windows are usually embedded on both sides and I never spoke to anyone who built those exhibits. Big Public Aquaria usually have very thick concrete walls, like a foot or two thick. It’d be nice to find someone locally but even nationally may be acceptable.
As said, there are some in UK but that's no help - I don't think flying and hosting them here would be financially feasible; and the US materials differ from UK materials.
(5) Precast concrete+window: here are some quotes from OldCastle Precast: “... The 8'x4'x3'bottom and walls only would be $1000. The stainless steel frame, epoxy coating, bottom drain would be something we could fabricate in the structure but will require more time to get those prices. … 10'x5'x3' (1100 US gal) would be priced at $1844…. the 20'x10'x3' (6000 US gal) would be $5703 and would weigh ~22 tons.”
The problems are the same as with item 4 above. I’d have to waterproof and install the window. Learning as you go may not be good here.
(6) Plywood+window: been done, examples: 1700 gal one window http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/d ... tank_1.php
2400 gal one window and 8000 gal 2 windows : Ted built plywood tropical tanks in his backyard in Seattle http://www.anythingfish.com/images/Ted/ ... rIndex.htm
600 gal, one window, exceptionally well described http://www.jonolavsakvarium.com/eng_diy ... itres.html
Well, again, DIY. Not good for me right now. Besides, the longevity may not be there.
(7) Rubber liner+window: I’ve seen the pics of such pond-aquarium hybrids on the net but never came across how the liner+window seam is made waterproof. I can imagine a few options. But out of all ponds, I have the most experience with rubber liner ponds and I do not want to deal with them anymore. They are unsightly. Big fish puncture them and some chew them. The liner would have to be under a protective layer of something, e.g. concrete or acrylic sheeting, etc. I do not like it.
(8) Polyethylene or polypropelene, etc (PE): relatively cheap, big, fish-friendly tubs are available, e.g., $800 for 1000 US gal water storage tanks. Never found anyone putting a window in one of those. Strongest, least buckle-prone, and cheapest are the cylindrical tubs, which means the window will have to be curved. That’s a con. Would need a strong frame for the window and would have to be DIY/learn from your mistakes kind of a deal again. Not good.
(9) Aluminum: as discussed here and other i-net places, can be toxic to fish, not good. http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =+aluminum
(10) Finally, Fiberglass tubs+window: these are the front runners for my smallest exhibits -
Aquaticeco.com, near Orlando FL - only two sizes suitable for me, 8’x4’x3’, $2000, 8’x4’x2.5’ $1600
(EDIT Feb 24 2015, new URL http://pentairaes.com/tanks/show/all )
(EDIT Feb 8 2016: an informative new thread from MFK on these tanks http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... ws.646391/ )
These are mass-produced I think in Malaysia or Indonesia.
Interesting that others sell them 50% more expensive, e.g., the same 8’x4’x3’ is $3200 here http://www.fishfarmsupply.ca/mm5/mercha ... fiberglass
Dolphin Fiberglass Products, Homestead, FL - - http://www.aquaculturetanks.com/
Nice Company and nice owner, Jack Broyl. Spent a few hours with him. They cannot beat the above $2000 price for a 8’x4’x3’, the closest would be $2500-$3000 but can make any size and have the molds for many bigger tanks but they are all exponentially more expensive – see their nice on-line collections of photos and the price list.
That’s where we stand, folks. Does anybody have a time-tested experience with those fiberglass tubs+windows (front runners)? Also, please share grounded, helpful opinions and suggestions on anything foregoing.
Thanks much in advance.
Viktor