PlanetCatfish.com

Posted: **20 Jan 2003, 16:37**

Good morning everyone. I got my "piebald ancistrus" yesterday. They were sold as ancistrus sp. red/black, and are quite cute, at just under 2 inches. I took some pictures for help in making sure that's exactly what they are. I was reading the information here http://www.planetcatfish.com/ilibrary/l ... /275_f.htm and I do have to say, that from what I've learned of albino genetics, its a recessive gene, its either showing, or being carried, it won't actually cause a modification of color pattern like this. I'm sure that a cross with the dark eyed gold ancistrus, might possibly create a color form like this though. Just my $.02 worth.

So without further ado... here's some pics

Posted: **20 Jan 2003, 17:35**

Hi!

Same thinking from my side...i bought 2 L144 recently and they look like yours a bit without the blotches...my piebald doesnt show his light blotches regularly but changing with mood. Sometimes hes really dark brown with light spots.
I wonder why nobody has come up with an answer as this is a quite regular fish in our shops.

Posted: **20 Jan 2003, 20:09**

Hi!

I have seen these in shop as well, but from what I have seen , the fish start to loose the orange gold colour to more brown when growing, a possible cross with a species that is totally range-gold is quite possible.
THe albinos strain is not possible that is for sure as the present fish has not red eyes and the typical albinos colour is not the same.
Still possible mutation due to overbreeding and crossbreeding can occur in farm and bring such things!
Cheers
Yann

Posted: **20 Jan 2003, 20:27**

ello

if it is a massbreeding mutation like this has come out it must be quite a stable line for it appears so often...this would lead again to thinking that it is a crossbreed between 2 Ancistrinae spp. only mutation wouldnt be so stable imho.

Posted: **20 Jan 2003, 20:48**

Hi Christian!

Good point yes but look at fin lace Ancistrus....
Plus still have to see a breeding report on these to see how stable the strain is!
Cheers
Yann

Posted: **20 Jan 2003, 20:51**

The long fin abominations have been bred by at least 2 PlanetCatfish regulars, details will follow if I can talk them into joining the forum.

Jools

Posted: **20 Jan 2003, 20:51**

Well, there is piebald <i>Clarias batrachus</i>, which appears to be pretty stable. Myabe the albino (mutant) gene isn't recessive, but codominant with the gene for normal color (and very rare in nature). Crossing an albino parent with a normal parent would then give piebald offspring.

Posted: **20 Jan 2003, 21:02**

If that was the case silurus, you wouldn't get all albino fry when you cross two, and all regular bristlenose fry, when you cross a standard bristlenose parent with an albino parent, assuming the standard isn't carrying an albino gene.

Albino genetics just don't work that way. They are a homozygous gene. There are only two genes, with no modifiers for the color pattern, one from each parent. Two albino genes make an albino fish, one albino gene makes a normal colored fish, that will throw 1/2 albino fry if crossed with an albino fish.

Its actually the simplest form of genetics. I'm still convinced it would have to be a cross with the dark eyed type of gold ancistrus personally.

Barbie

Posted: **20 Jan 2003, 21:05**

hi

talking about long-fin-mutation - in DK there's also a long-fin-albino-mutation.
And to use a danish phrase: that's not my "cup of tea".

-Klaus

Posted: **20 Jan 2003, 21:05**

Hmm, okay, I am a little rusty with my genetics.
How does this explain piebald <i>Clarias</i>? Transposons? Epistasis?

Posted: **20 Jan 2003, 21:14**

Hi!

I recently bought 2 L144 along with my bunch of common ancistrus it shouldnt be much problem to try this one out...just for once of course, id rather like some genuine L144 offspring...

Posted: **20 Jan 2003, 21:14**

I'm not sure on the piebald clarias. There is also an OB (or piebald) form of ps. zebra, a type of african cichlid, that was supposedly crossed into the african peacocks, to create the genetics for that color pattern. Its a topic for huge debate on the cichlid discussion boards also. Is there a yellow form of clarias that's dark eyed?

Horse genetics have two different "patterns" for the pinto or piebald type horses, with two distinct patterns of overlays. They are naturally occuring genetics. One is homozygous, and causes the tobiano color pattern, and one is a gene characteristic that can be changed drastically by the genetics of the other parent involved in the offspring. Many modifiers affect how much of the horse is white. It will be interesting to see just how stable the genetics of these plecos will be seen to be in the next few years.

Barbie

ps. as a side note, those long finned albino bristlenose are also available in the states, and are demanding a pretty high retail price, comparatively, to the ease of breeding them.

Posted: **20 Jan 2003, 21:21**

I am not a genetics expert, but I would tend to agree with Heok Hee. Someone probably got a few sports in a commercial breeding facility and saved them up until they had enough to start some breeding experiments (as was done with a Corydoras recently). It may be a very rare recesive, but this could be taken care of by simply crossing a brother and sister with the mutation. I would say it would be interesting to spawn them and record what happens with the fry, but I hate to think of anyone unleashing more of these things on the world. We in the catfish world have been pretty lucky that because of the difficulty spawning so many spp. catfishes do not lend themselves to "fancy" strains. Looks like those times are coming to an end. Next thing you know Ancistrus will be as deformed as the "modern" Discus which, in the quest for changing their color, fins, and body shape, have lost all of their natural instincts and constitution and can only survive in a sterile tank with no competition. Piebald and long fin Ancistrus may not seem so bad, but some of us see this as a slippery slope towards the eventual blood parrot pleco.
-Shane

Posted: **20 Jan 2003, 21:23**

I have about 4 of the piebald ancistrus and can confirm that they do go browner with age but it is more dark browny-black and when stressed their piebald colouration shows through. I have one male about 1 inch and 3 females about 1/2-3/4 of an inch.

Caz

Posted: **23 Jan 2003, 17:44**

piebald ancistrus = ANCISTRUS sp. "Brown" - LDA16 (i think)

Photo of my young fish

Posted: **23 Jan 2003, 18:34**

Thank you! How big is that pleco? He doesn't look to be quite 4 inches, unless those are some fantastically large guppies

Do you just have the one?

Barbie

Posted: **23 Jan 2003, 20:43**

I have 4 male and 4 female. The bigest male is about 4 inches.

young female (2,5 inches)

male (4 inches)

PlanetCatfish.com

Pictures of the new plecos, sold as ancistrus sp. red/black

Pictures of the new plecos, sold as ancistrus sp. red/black