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Hey goonch owners!,
Tuesday ill have a b bagarius to add to my collection. I was hoping to get some tips on what to start feeding it. What did everyone else have success with?

Awesome! Where were you finally able to find one?

Wes Wong of rare fish. Seems like he has a soft spot for the goonches and owns a few himself. $100 dollars plus shipping. My lil river devil is scheduled to arrive Tuesday (:

If I were you, I would ask the seller what he feeds the fish. btw, do you have the photo of the fish ?

Somewhere in my email. With Wes though my worries of it being the wrong species are limited. Nobody can be 100% but I feel pretty good about this one. If its not though I got the big one for half of what it normally would cost.

At least one fish that came in from this group of Wes' was in fact a rutilus.

I also have a goonch that I acquired at 6.5" that is now almost ten. When I first got it, it had the small, rounded head of the 'dwarf goonches'. Her head is now getting more of a straight line profile and her fins are getting orange on them.

I'm beginning to think that either the dwarves are sympatric with rutilus or that they are in fact the same thing. I can't help but notice that there's never (to my knowledge anyway) been any juvenile rutilus brought in that are the same basic size range as a dwarf.

It seems apparent from my conversations with Silurus that this genus is all messed up and that its not entirely clear how things break down. I think that 'yarrelli' probably needs to be split up.

But I'm just rambling.

EDIT- time to ramble some more. lol. I'd like to point the OP to the discussion that Wes and I had on the subject of just what the heck these fish are. Read it here:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... ost6611045

And here:
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... ost6611127

That's what's so cool about owning them. As hobbiest we could help to clear things up. If the dwarf is in fact a juvinile rutilus that would be ground breaking.

Update on my 'dwarf goonch' : he ate two minnows, and I'm very upset that I missed it. Sneaky lil devil. I was worried about him taking long to adapt and feed. My waters ph was slightly alkaline, he had a cross country trip. But the first 14 hours have been good

That's great that he's eating!

I'm really curious to see how your guy grows out. Any chance we could get some pictures of him?

Absolutely if I can figure out how. Anybody ever hand fed a goonch? I hand fed him a bloodworm and almost jumped out of my skin when he went for it. Lightning fast is an understatement... Prolly shouldn't do that once his teeth finish developing more. Haha

Getting pics of him isn't easy he loves to hide or either blends in very well.

Any idea of provenance??? I ask because this specimen doesn't look like it came from India.

Ill contact Wes and find out.

I'm about 99% certain yours is the same thing as mine, which means that it would be a Thai strain. The color and pattern is exactly the same as mine was when I first got her. The similarity is striking, the only difference is that mine was a bit thicker.

I'd imagine that given enough time, yours will have the orange fins, too.

Mine is from the northern Thailand mountains. How big is yours now, and is it showing any other characteristics of a rutilus?

While at 6" it was pretty spot on for what we consider a 'dwarf', it is now 10" and perfectly matches the description for rutilus, right down to the distinctive orange fins. I actually owe Jools some pictures but forgot until now. I'll have to get that email sent off.

Sorry Jools, been busy at work.!

If yours is indeed a rutilus, it should start changing in more than just color though right?

Such as a the dorsal should become taller and the pectoral should have the tentacle extending off them.

Tyty13 wrote:Such as a the dorsal should become taller and the pectoral should have the tentacle extending off them.

I think you're really over thinking this. Your fish is built like it is because it's tiny. It's a baby. As he grows, he'll thicken up and will appear more squat like mine. Things like fin tentacles and the height of the dorsal fin can't really be used as diagnostic traits. My girl had a really nice streamer off of the top lobe of her tail until one of my tigerfish decided it looked like a tasty worm, bit it off and ate it. The absence of the streamer doesn't affect the diagnosis of the species.

What I'm looking at as characteristic is the oval eyes, the lack of spots and the high contrast bands. Of the several rutilus specimens that have been confirmed in 2013, all had these traits. Yours has them as well. I doubt anything will change on your fish in regards to this. The only thing I expect it to gain is the fourth trait, the orange fins.

Ok that leaves me with this. I've seen pictures of rutilus specimens 26inches... And some say they get even bigger. Do you think the way yours looks now is how it's going to stay, or do u think its appearance is still changing

Tyty13 wrote:Ok that leaves me with this. I've seen pictures of rutilus specimens 26inches... And some say they get even bigger. Do you think the way yours looks now is how it's going to stay, or do u think its appearance is still changing

As it grows its proportions will change somewhat I believe, as all fish who get big go through changes like that. Trying to quantify those changes doesn't make sense to me, its just what these guys do.

I expect Dottie to more or less look exactly how she does now as she grows. If that doesn't answer your question, then I'm afraid I'm not quite sure what you're driving at.

Yes we're on the wrong page here...

Ok so when you say rutilus I picture this. Do you think that ours will end up looking similar to this.

Tyty13 wrote:Yes we're on the wrong page here...

Ok so when you say rutilus I picture this. Do you think that ours will end up looking similar to this.

Ours already look just like tiny versions of that. They look exactly the same, just smaller.

I took the liberty of running the image you attached through photoshop to correct the colors. The warm light is killing it, but it's really not that bad.
Also, see these pics of my girl. The first pic is at about 6", the second pic is at about 10".





Finally, compare your picture, my fish, your fish and the baby from Amiidae's pictures of the "Bagarius bagarius" on that profile to this, the holotype for rutilus (thanks Silurus!). Note that the colors on this fish are stained from preservative. It seems pretty clear to me that all the fish in question are the same species. Any differences that you might see (I certainly don't see any) are just artifacts of size.

After comparing all of them side by side, like you I see no major differences at all. So this would mean its a good chance that most 'dwarf goonches' from Thailand are actually rutilus. Right?

Tyty13 wrote:After comparing all of them side by side, like you I see no major differences at all. So this would mean its a good chance that most 'dwarf goonches' from Thailand are actually rutilus. Right?

That is exactly my hypothesis.

And if that is the case it would raise another question. Are there really dwarf goonch? Perhaps the Indian species? I'm feel inclined to purchase one from India labeled a dwarf but if it was in fact a giant I would have nowhere to house it.

I don't think any of the Bagarius from India remain small.

I've never heard of the ones coming from India being dwarves, however some sellers still label them that way. Does anyone know somebody who has owned a bagarius that only reached 8 inches in length after several years?

Tyty13 wrote:I've never heard of the ones coming from India being dwarves, however some sellers still label them that way. Does anyone know somebody who has owned a bagarius that only reached 8 inches in length after several years?

I heard of one account on MFK but it was anecdotal. He had one picture and a story. That's not enough proof for me to accept it and roll with it.

It truly is difficult and somewhat frustrating to think how when ordering one of these species your never intirely sure of what your getting. We really aren't terribly sure of the max size of our goonch from Thailand. But anyway I had a question I was hoping you could answer or at least give your input on. After watching the river monsters episode of the goonch I noticed that when they went under water to film the goonch in the wild for the first time, they were in groups hanging vertically on the rocks. Do you think ours would do well with other goonch tank mates like them?

Tyty13 wrote:It truly is difficult and somewhat frustrating to think how when ordering one of these species your never intirely sure of what your getting. We really aren't terribly sure of the max size of our goonch from Thailand. But anyway I had a question I was hoping you could answer or at least give your input on. After watching the river monsters episode of the goonch I noticed that when they went under water to film the goonch in the wild for the first time, they were in groups hanging vertically on the rocks. Do you think ours would do well with other goonch tank mates like them?

There are many aquarists who have successfully kept groups of like sized goonches together.