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Many say this species (common pleco) can reach 24 inches, but the description on this sites says about 13.8. Does the average common pleco get that big?

This species is not the common pleco - it is a perpetuating error in literature. The common plecos are pterygoplichthys pardalis & disjunctivus which given adequate space will reach 20"+

Ok thank you. But this site still shows it at about 13.8 which is a big difference.

The site is correct...Hypostomus plecostomus reaches about 14 inches. The common plecos, P. pardalis and P. disjunctivus, get much larger.

Hi,

Richard B wrote:This species is not the common pleco

To my understanding Hypostomus plecostomus has given the name to our plecos and is one of the oldest loricarid species. Over the time ichthyologists synonymised numerous species with H. plecostomus and thus extending its distribution nearly over whole South America. For me it would be very logic to call this species the "common pleco".
However, later on most of the synonyms proved not to be justified and its distribution is now restricted to the northern Guianas.

I'm fully aware that usually Liposarcus/Pterygloplichthys pardalis/disjunctivus are given this attribute "common" in the trade in English speaking countries (in German we don't have an equivalent afaik).
But how comes that these species are considered to be the "common" pleco ?!
Is it due to the fact that they are readily available in the trade ?
Since when are you using this expression ?!

The largest Hypostomus plecostomus that I'm aware of measures ~25 cm (SL) which would translate to around 14" (TL).

My largest specimen only measures ~20 cm (TL) but I'm sure it will be only a matter of time to become much larger. I hope that they know to stop latest at 14" .

Cheers,

kamas88 wrote:But how comes that these species are considered to be the "common" pleco ?!
Is it due to the fact that they are readily available in the trade ?
Since when are you using this expression ?!

I completely agree with the history of the term pleco and its association with H. plecostomus at that point in taxonomic time. It was plec in the UK and only has changed to the American pleco in the internet age. I think the "common pleco" name tag arose with the proliferation of pet chain stores. Now, we see common plecos being the mass produced Pterygoplichthys which replaced the most commonly exported species of Hypostomus.

If we look at how it has been introduced all over the world, like a South American version of Tilapia, it can also be considered the common pleco.

Jools

The association of the U.S. common name "pleco" with the species name "plecostomus" is incorrect. It actually came from the old genus Plecostomus. Back (before Boseman 1968 and the ICZN ruling on the genus name) when all these largish ancistrinae were in Plecostomus they were all "plecos."
As Jools pointed out the term common pleco came much later as the hobby started to realize that there were a dozen or more loricariids actually being sold under the name "pleco."
-Shane

Aha! A "Jools and Shane old fish books and lore" thread! Where is Mr. Finley?

I've an incomplete record on this, so would like to see a pre-1968 use of the term in print. Attached is a picture and caption from the 1961 edition of TFH's Encyclopedia of Tropical Fishes which already talks about Hypostomus and there is no use of the term pleco.

I'd suggest the use of the term pleco was after the fish was known correctly as Hypostomus plecostomus and so, at least by my logic, the pleco came from the specific epithet and not the old genus.

That we even give a rats about this is testament high levels of catfish geekiness.

Jools

I would like someone to help me identify my pleco, but I can't seem to find out how to attach a picture in the reply.

Sure, we'd be glad to. First click on the "full editor" button below. Then type a reply and click on the attachment tab below the submit button. This allows you to simply add a picture or two, wait for them to upload and then submit.

Cheers,

Jools

Thank you for the help! What kind of pleco is this? He's gonna get ghastly huge huh?

looks like the common pleco - that is Pterogoblichthys pardalis/disjunctivus to me

Yes, they become huge

Oh well, I got him cheap (another sign of boring pleco), was so tired of all my specialty plecos that hide all the time (gold nugget, three beacon, butterfly) that I grabbed this guy. He presently in a 120 gallon tank, if he gets too big, my fish dealer will take him back.

Burgess 1989 pg 383

"The name Plecostomus is still with us, however, for although just about all the scientific literature is now using the name Hypostomus, hobbyists still cling to the name as a common name for all Hypostomus species, shortening it to "plecos" for added convenience. The species name Hypostomus plecostomus certainly has contributed to the perpetuation of the common name plecostomus."

"Those aquarists who are not as familiar with the loricariids as catfish enthusiast also tend to refer to species of other genera (such as Ancistrus and Pterygoplichthys) as plecos."

Two guys that fancy themselves experts wrote about this for TFH 16 years ago

http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworl ... +Say+Pleco

-Shane

So, based on the Shane's World article, instead of calling everything "plecos," to be proper we should be calling them "loris": clown loris, royal loris, BN loris, whiptail loris, vampire loris, etc.

They sound like trucks based on fish from a Dr. Seuss book. Sorry, but there's just something familiar and comfortable with the name "pleco." It's not right, but it just is.

Source: http://www.amazon.com/Seuss-Department- ... B0051IAQP0
(Sorry, I couldn't find artwork of a Dr Seuss catfish; all I could find was this Christmas tree ornament of catfishes)

P.S. For a NOOB to catfish keeping like myself, this Shane's world article is an interesting read for historical perspective. For example, it also ends on a note about the "beautiful, and expensive, L81." Today most people would agree regarding the beauty of this fish, but when compared to the price of so many other species available today (probably more recently discovered/imported), is almost a bargain.

I wouldn't mind seeing a shift to calling these animals loris instead of plecos, or just refer to their general genus like ancistrini. We call trucks trucks here not lorries so its not too confusing either. Pleco is easy to write and read but I always feel awkward saying it when it isn't actually a common pleco, the giant we're discussing in this thread. Plus people might go, "lori? what is that?" and then maybe pick up a book or google it and learn something.

As far as the move from H. plecostomous being imported to P. pardalis/disjunctis being bred and the more common "common pleco", when about would you say this occured? Like 1980's, 70's? Just trying to get an idea of when the hobby started recognizing and selling the different species of pleco.

ZiggaOfBoulder wrote:Pleco is easy to write and read but I always feel awkward saying it when it isn't actually a common pleco, the giant we're discussing in this thread. Plus people might go, "lori? what is that?" and then maybe pick up a book or google it and learn something.

Agreed. One obstacle to this might be that both "loris" and even "lories" already refer to other animals- a cute mammal in the first case, and the second lorikeet birds. If you Google "loris" you see this:
But should that stop us from changing?

What's wrong with Loricarids?

Loricariid is the best term for the family as a whole while "pleco" is really just used for the ancistrinae. Most U.S. aquarists (excluding catfish people) don't tend to think of loricariinae or hypoptopominae as "plecos."

I think this has more recently been reinforced by the L Number craze as almost all "L Number plecos" are from ancistrinae.

The term "common pleco" is a bit more thorny as the name implies "the most commonly available pleco" which has changed over time. Today, however, the name is pretty much tied to a complex of Pterygoblichthys species and/or hybrids.

In response to Zigga's question I seem to remember this happening in the early to mid 2000s on a large scale as U.S. chain pet stores put the old LFS out of business and began selling millions of Pterygoplichthys that had been captive bred in Asia.

In Northern Virginia where I am with 2.8 million people there is not a single LFS left. The closest is 45 minutes away in Maryland and the next closest one after that is two hours away in Pennsylvania. Between the big box chains underselling them on drygoods, the big mailorder guys outselling them on price and variety, and the huge availability of rare fishes through Aquabid it is pretty hard to find a niche for the LFS in the US.

-Shane

Shane wrote:... in the early to mid 2000s on a large scale as U.S. chain pet stores put the old LFS out of business...

In Northern Virginia where I am with 2.8 million people there is not a single LFS left. The closest is 45 minutes away in Maryland and the next closest one after that is two hours away in Pennsylvania. Between the big box chains underselling them on drygoods, the big mailorder guys outselling them on price and variety, and the huge availability of rare fishes through Aquabid it is pretty hard to find a niche for the LFS in the US.

Wow, that's sad. I didn't know the LFS scene was so bleak in some parts of the country. My brother used to own a LFS in Olympia, Washington and he went out of business when the big chain stores came to town. But since then another LFS opened and they seem to be doing well. In my town, which I consider a medium-sized town (~300,000 people), we have two big chain stores and 4 LFSs, all within 7 miles from my house. I don't know how they do it, but they're still here.

Bas Pels wrote:What's wrong with Loricarids?

Nothing. But it's my impression that people, at least in the USA, like to have abbreviated nicknames for everything they interact with frequently. It serves both as a combination of short-hand so they don't need to say long words and it conveys a familiar and affectionate relationship between us and the object. I suspect many people would say "loricariids" just doesn't roll off the tongue easily.

I'm away from home at present, so I can't comment much more on the timing of the introduction of the word pleco. No books to hand!

The tribe ancistrini is the current correct term since the Ancistrinae was sunk, the sub family nearly all l-numbers are in is Hypostominae.

Jools