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Hi All,

Just came back from local fish club meeting and was able to get a great (I think) impulse buy - 8 juvenile Hypancistrus from another local breeder. Some were bought at a great price, and some were gifted to me afterward; I couldn't be more grateful.

There's only one problem - as I understand the situation, the breeder had tank-space limitations and as a result he mixed juveniles from multiple spawns, potentially from three different species... so I don't know what I have. Ohhhh, noooooooo!!!!!!!!

His adults include , , and .

The fish vary in size from just over 1.5 cm SL to about 2.5 cm SL. Here are photos of all 8, divided by size. The largest four are grouped together and the smallest four are shown together.

As far as I can tell, I got two different species, not three. But most do look to be the same.

So what do you think I have? These are the first Hypancistrus I've ever owned, so it's a brave new world for me. Thanks for all your help.

Cheers, Eric

Hi Eric, i've not gone down the hypan route yet, so i dont have an ID i can offer you, but this info that i can offer may be helpful, i found even with pleco siblings, they have alike features, eyes, patterning ect, they all could possibly be the same sp. but with diiferent parentage. You do have fish with different features esp.fish 2, with the larger pattern, size in stripe width, though similar in appearance, this could be a bonus in terms of different bloodlines. It would well be worth looking further into whether the three species can potentially hybridise. As well as a confirmed ID.

Hi Teresa,

Thanks for the tip about bloodlines. It may apply here, but it is also very likely that I have 2 (or up to 3) species here based on what the breeder told me.

And I think you're right about the risk of hybridization - I've read elsewhere that it is a distinct possibility, and that's why I'm hoping people can help me ID these. If I do have a mix... especially if I have only ONE of a species... then I want to isolate them to separate tanks so that they are not tempted to hybridize with my other hypans.

So, to all you hypan keepers, please sound off: What do you see here? Are the fish too young to distinguish? Would a video or more pics be helpful?

Thanks again. Cheers, Eric

For me they are a bit to young to i.d as all 3 of the Hypan you mentioned have very simaler young to almost identical young! Will have to wait to aleast around 3 years old then you can try and make some kind of i.d based at tail shape/length plus over all body shape! Here are a few interesting articles that might help for when they get older. plus like already mentioned all 3 will and do hybridise.

https://translate.google.co.uk/translat ... rev=search

https://translate.google.co.uk/translat ... rev=search

http://www.loricariidae.no/loricariidae ... _L400.html

For me they are a bit to young to i.d as all 3 of the Hypan you mentioned have very simaler young to almost identical young! Will have to wait to aleast around 3 years old then you can try and make some kind of i.d based at tail shape/length plus over all body shape! Here are a few interesting articles that might help for when they get older. plus like already mentioned all 3 will and do hybridise.


http://www.loricariidae.no/loricariidae ... _L400.html

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... roduct/414

Sorry some of those first links were to Hypancistrus sp. "Last Emperor" then could not edit or delete it

Thanks Brian2014.

So is that it? I have to wait up to 3 years for these things to grow up before I can tell them apart? I picked out the photos of fishes #2 and #4 above because they seem to represent extremes of difference, and yet the two fish are approximately the same SL. Are these L numbers so variable that those two specimens could be from the same parents?

Cheers, Eric

P.S.,

Brian2014 wrote:Sorry some of those first links were to Hypancistrus sp. "Last Emperor" then could not edit or delete it

If you ever need to edit or delete a post of yours, there are two buttons (see figure) which allow you to edit or delete it.
However, the "delete" button is only available for the most recent post in the thread. Once other posts are added to the thread, you lose the ability to delete your older posts. But you can still edit them.

Cheers, Eric

Hi Eric, you are probably well aware of these points already, as mentioned I have no experience with hypans, but they are points for you to consider. The age/size when these can potentially breed, if before the 3yr point, (i would think they could have reached it by this stage). It is probably not possible for you to separate them all individually when they reach breedable age, the early signs show fish two might be a different species. Therefore I'd advise keep a close eye on development and any differences that occur up until breeding age. However I'm still hoping you get some more info from other experienced hypan keeper's/breeders or people in the know that can expand on the info given.

Hi Teresa,

Yes, you're right... Keep a close eye on them while they grow, and no spawning allowed until spp. confirmed.

Cheers, Eric

Hi all,
I'd watch their growth rates, that might allow you to sort out the from the .

I had a few fry in with some juveniles, and why they looked indistinguishable (to me) when they were young, but the grew a lot faster. I know the difference in size isn't as big for your fish, but it might give you a clue.

I don't know enough about , to know if this would help distinguish it from either other species.

cheers Darrel

Thanks for the info, Darrel. I'll keep an eye on them for growth rate. I noticed in the CLOGs that grows about 2 cm longer than , so final size should help too. No info in the CLOGs about max size for .

Cheers, Eric

Very beautiful fish.

Thank you.

Here's a video of these little fish:

New Hypancistrus juveniles: L066, L400, or H. sp. "Lower Rio Xingu"?



Cheers, Eric

15 month update: Since the date of purchase, I've lost two of the hypans - one to a fight and one to an infection.

I wanted to capture the remaining six today, but one stubborn fish zipped into a cave and locked its pectorals - it just would NOT come out! (Dang it)

So, I managed to get a set of photos and videos of the other five fish. Let me know what you think. Can they be ID'd now? They have at least tripled, if not quadrupled in size since purchase. The largest is about 60-70mm SL and the smallest about 45-50mm SL.

There are at least two different hypans in the group. I think the three largest are L400s. The two smallest might be sp. lower Rio Xingu. I'm not sure, but I base my IDs on two traits: (1) For the three putative L400s, they all appear to have almost "spot-like" color patterns at some location along the caudal peduncle or on the dorsal body surface. (2) For the putative sp. lower Rio Xingu fish, they both have black lines along the body that become split, trapping small distances of white inside the black line (like a white bubble trapped inside the black line). This is particularly evident if you look at the heads from a dorsal view and notice the closely spaced bold dark lines between the head and the dorsal fin, with the trapped narrow white stripe in between.

Although I don't know what to make of it, the two smaller fish also have the stripes on the upper dorsal fins broken up into dots - I would have thought this might indicate L400, but I can't see any photos of L400, or either of the other two hypans for that matter, that show these dorsal fin spots.

So what do you think? Can you draw any conclusions about the IDs of these five fish? I really wish I could have photographed and video'd the sixth fish, but I waited 30 minutes with that twit hiding in the cave - out of water! - and it refused to slide out.

Cheers, Eric

Direct YouTube link: Mystery Hypancistrus: L066, L400, or sp. "lower Rio Xingu"? 15 month update

Here's an in-cave photo of the sixth fish.

The lines are closer together on this fish, like the lines of the first four fish. But it also has a distinct curly pattern to the lines, some forming white pockets surrounded by black (as seen in the sideways "6" along the caudal peduncle, below and maybe a little in front of the adipose fin).

I'm not sure what to make of it. Maybe a larger specimen of sp. lower Rio Xingu?

Cheers, Eric

Hi,

I wouldnt breed with any of these specimens, neither all the others from the breeder that were mixed up. I dont see a single reason why somebody should do that. It is really difficult to tell the wormlined-complex apart if the origin is well known. Knowing that the group consists/might consist of different fishes, trying to sort them out and hoping for the best is not the correct way in my opinion.
They all belong to the same species, thats likely, but definitely represent different populations/variations/morphs, and we as aquarists should try and are actually responsible to keep these strains clean. This is difficult enough - always.

One day they will breed like rabbits, cause thats what Hypancistrus (except L 174) do, and many, many "likely and hopefully L xy" will appear and find new owners, all the upcoming offspring are of uncertain origin and therefore useless in any matter of conversation.

cheers
Daniel

Thanks for the perspective, Daniel. Yes, I'm resigned to not breeding them for the very reason you say.

Cheers, Eric