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Hi everyone (especially @TTA and anyone else with zebra experience),

The title of this post says it all.

I have a chance to get two juvenile (1.5") . I'd like to put them into a 20 gal long tank currently housing seven . Those fish and the tank are described here: California received a shipment from Aquarium Glaser! and here: The Aquaria of Bekateen (look for tank #22. "20 gal long Ninja wood cat tank").

The tank is 81-82F, about 150ppm (TDS), pH around 7. Matten filter. Sand substrate, decorated with cobble stones, wood and bamboo pipes and caves.

My concern is that the orcas will bully or harm the zebras.

The orcas currently hide in the larger caves. If you think the combination of these species is safe, I'd add more cobbles and more smaller caves to give the zebras size-relevant hiding places that the orcas couldn't get.

What do you think? Thanks for your help.

Cheers, Eric

I have actually had the opposite experience.

For me, the woodcats would get into the cave first. And then the plecos would come in afterwards and strip their skin off. The woodcats couldn't escape as the pleco was blocking the exit. And the posterior of the woodcat is defenseless without any spines or armor to protect them.

My unfortunate species were Trachelichthys exilis and L333 so it may be different with H. zebra. Both species were similar in size at the time. The L333 I still have and are a good bit larger now.

Andy

Interesting. Sorry for your bad experience, Andy.

Obviously, these zebras will be small, about 1.5". The orcas are about 3" SL. Most of my bamboo caves are 1.5" diameter, but at home I have some 0.75" diameter caves. At least while the zebras are small, I think they could get in the small caves and the orcas won't.

Also, to avoid the reverse problem, my larger caves are now elevated off the aquarium floor, so they are not down where the zebras would tend to hang out.

More opinions and perspectives are appreciated. Thanks again.

Eric

I have always chosen to keep my breeding plecos in species tanks. I do also have a few planted community tanks and I have had a pleco or two in such tanks. But these were mostly bristlenose. However, I had two H. contradens in with my altum angels. Also, when I acquired my breeding zebra group I had two wc males I had gotten years earlier and which had to be moved out. The only tank I could park those two zebras in was a 25 gal. tank which held a pair of discus. Those zebras lived in that tank for close to three years when they were moved in with my F1 zebras when I finally kept some for me.

I for sure would suggest you get the zebras, especially of the price is good. Moreover if two is all you need to house, a 10 gal. tank would be just fine, imo. A bit of sand, a piece of wood or two, a few caves and rocks and they will be happy as the proverbial pigs in poop.

I have always believed zebras are especially hard wired for flight. They have no dithers in the wild, and there are plenty of things which would happily eat them. This danger increases the shallower they are since birds, etc. can come into play. Basically, once they get beyond being very young, they soon learn to flee for cover at the first sign of movement. If they try to determine what made that movement they may get the answer from inside something. I have always approached my fish by keeping them on their own and providing them with a ton of cover as well as many caves. I figure the "happier" they are, the healthier and more inclined to spawn they will be.

Lastly, from a purely economic point of view. I am disinclined to put a fairly inexpensive fish in with my zebras. I would hate to cause illness or death due to the addition of a few dollar fish into a tank with zebras. But this is an issue everybody has to decide for themselves. For me it is easy. I have a dozen zebras plus recent fry in the breeder tank. I have another tank with 18 zebras, some of which will visit the NEC Convention in March. So I am not inclined to add other fish to tanks with that many zebras.

All of the above said, it is possible to keep zebras with other fish. It would be an issue of compatibility in terms of both behavior and parameters. I am not familiar with the other fish you mentioned, so I cannot help much in that respect. But a bit of reading seems to show they prefer cooler temps than zebras, appreciate plants, (zebras don't care) and none of my Hypan tanks have lights on them except for cleaning time. https://www.scotcat.com/auchenipteridae ... s_orca.htm (Sorry but Scotcat has more info than I found here.) Temperament does not appear to be an issue. People who know the P. orca better should definitely chime in.

Thanks TTA. Definitely I'd like more background on what to expect, but you bring up some compelling points.

One problem I'm facing is limitations on # of tanks. I'm already running about 25-26 tanks. Not looking to start more now. And unfortunately, I don't have many tanks at higher temps that aren't already full of other Hypans, Peckoltia, or Panaqolus. That's why the orca tank, which is not overcrowded, was my first thought.

Besides, two stark black and white fish might be interesting together, although to be honest I'd never see either.

Anyone else?

Cheers, Eric

Got more than two. Fish are in a temporary 10 gal QT tank setup using filter, sand, caves and rocks from already running tanks. Only heater and wavemaker are new (plus 10 gal tank itself).

But this cannot last. It's on my kitchen counter where we cook.

Would still like to know what I can put these with safely. From other replies, I've concluded placing these with orcas not a good idea because orcas are aggressive feeders.

I don't have direct experience with this species, but did keep C. schultzi with zebras for years and the latter even raised fry in the tank. Looking at your tank, the only place for the woodcats to go is in competition with the plecos. Some structure in the midwater would give them a place of their own.

I don't know if C. orca is a fastwater species; but will find out next month!

Jools

TwoTankAmin wrote: 14 Feb 2018, 21:25 The only tank I could park those two zebras in was a 25 gal. tank which held a pair of discus. Those zebras lived in that tank for close to three years when they were moved in with my F1 zebras when I finally kept some for me.

What were the water parameters of that tank, and what did you feed the discus and zebras? (My understanding was that beef heart is bad for most carnivorous plecos, so maybe you were feeding the discus something else)

I have never been a fan of beef heart and only fed it very briefly and in small amounts before I gave it up completely. I fed a lot of frozen foods, sinking sticks and flake in that tank. The nice part was I could feed the zebras after lights out and the discus when they were on. I tended to feed the discus a few times a day in smaller amounts. Those discus are long gone but the zebras are still with me. I actually acquired those two zebras in late 2004 if memory serves me (which these days it often does not )


My well water has been great for soft water fish, especially S.A. In early years it was about 7.3/4 pH and TDS about 110 ppm. over the years it got softer and more neutral. Today it can range between about 58 and 83 ppm and is pretty much dead neutral pH.

@bekateen

So many tanks, so little time. Since you cannot get more time, you may as well get more tanks.

Jools wrote: 15 Feb 2018, 07:44Looking at your tank, the only place for the woodcats to go is in competition with the plecos. Some structure in the midwater would give them a place of their own.

For what it's worth, that photo (visible on my "My Aquaria" page) is from when the orca tank was first established. Since then I've added more wood and caves, and about half or more of the caves are suspended mid-water by the Manzanita and other wood branches. For quite a few months now, there are very few caves actually on the ground/substrate in that tank. If I did add the zebras to this tank, I'd add many small diameter caves at ground level, and probably increase the number of caves midwater, to subdivide the space for both species.

If you just imagine the two species together in one tank, it would be visually impressive to have two "black-and-white" species together with different body shapes. Pretty cool I think...

... That said, from every other piece of info I'm getting, it seems that the best option is to separate the two species and set up another (permanent) tank for the zebras. Oh, the pain of adding another tank.

Jools wrote: 15 Feb 2018, 07:44I don't know if C. orca is a fastwater species; but will find out next month!

Ooooh, regardless of whether I put the zebras in with the orcas, I'd really like to know the answer when you find out. Currently I have a weak powerhead / wavemaker in the orca tank. Based on the speed and behavior of their swimming, I expect to learn that they are indeed in faster currents. And if that's correct, I'd like to replace my weak powerhead with a stronger one.

Thanks, Eric