Moving Fry

All posts regarding the care and breeding of these catfishes from South America.
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Speedy1985
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Moving Fry

Post by Speedy1985 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:03 pm

Last week, I pulled a batch of L-129 eggs from a cave and hatched them artificially because the male has not done well with a few spawns previously and I didn't want to lose this one. Now that they have just about lost their egg sacs, I want to move them into a breeder box in the same tank. In the breeder box are a small group I've been growing out from a previous spawn that were the only survivors. Now that they've reached about 1/2", would it be safe to move them back in with the adults without being harassed? Or would I be better off putting the new fry in with the existing ones? I also have 5.5 and 10g tanks available for growout.

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bekateen
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Re: Moving Fry

Post by bekateen » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:48 pm

Congrats on another spawn. My Hypancistrus debilittera have spawned before and I released the young into the tank at about 1/2" SL safely. That said, I've let L201 fry loose with parents at only a week or two old. They were tiny, barely having finished their yolk and starting to feed on regular foods. They also seemed to do okay. I may have lost some, but not a lot.

I think you'll be okay, especially if you can provide food just for the babies (or excess of regular foods).

Good luck, Eric
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Speedy1985
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Re: Moving Fry

Post by Speedy1985 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:25 pm

bekateen wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:48 pm
Congrats on another spawn. My Hypancistrus debilittera have spawned before and I released the young into the tank at about 1/2" SL safely. That said, I've let L201 fry loose with parents at only a week or two old. They were tiny, barely having finished their yolk and starting to feed on regular foods. They also seemed to do okay. I may have lost some, but not a lot.

I think you'll be okay, especially if you can provide food just for the babies (or excess of regular foods).

Good luck, Eric
Thank you Eric.
I think that's my biggest worry, that they can't compete for food. But I'd think that there would be enough residual uneaten. I've also started using oak and maple leaves, so the organic stuff may be a help as well. I guess I'll give it a shot and move the new ones to the box to grow a bit.

Don

Speedy1985
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Re: Moving Fry

Post by Speedy1985 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:22 am

Also, what are your thoughts about moving them into a 5.5g tank with a bunch of longfin albino bristlenose?

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bekateen
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Re: Moving Fry

Post by bekateen » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:38 am

I think debilittera fry are, in my experience, more shy than some species and I bet the Ancistrus fry would outcompete them. I wouldn't do it.

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Re: Moving Fry

Post by TwoTankAmin » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:53 pm

This does not apply to situations where "bad" dads are the problem and are either eating or booting viable eggs. The ove pleco I have worked with that did this were my P. compta.

My experience with Hypancistrus has been that the fry do best when they can be left in the breeder tank,I discovered this when I was lucky enough to acquire a proven breeding colony of zebras. I hit the jackpot and the 13 adults gave me close to 100 fry between mid-April and December. I had to begin to spread out the fry as it was insane be risking all my zebras being wiped out because of an issue in one tank. I also had an issue with the plumbing in the tank and ended up (before it was fixed) removing 10-12 tiny fry from a H.O.T. Magnum fry at its weekly cleaning. These fry were put into a growout tank. I also began pulling caves with dads on eggs/wiggler as well. However, I never remove all the fry from the breeder tank and this allowed me to see and compare the differing growth rates of the fry in each tank.

When I determined the kids in the breeder tank grew faster than those in the growout tank, I post abut this. I was surprised when some of the experts who had been helping me replied they had observed the same thing. They also noticed another phenomena I had observed. The alpha male in the tank was not the biggest fish but the second biggest fish.

My feeding solution for fry in breeder tanks is simple, I feed different sized foods. I first add BBS or cyclops to the tank and that finds its way to the fry. I follow that with the adult foods- brine, mysis, bloods, tubifex, etc. I also feed a lot of Repashy. Fry can eat this as well as adults. Finally, when pressed for time I will feed commercial sinking sticks which can also be consumed easily by fry as well as adults. It is essential that fry get fed regularly. If I am pressed for time and cannot feed all tanks, the fry always get food every day early on.

Finally, what works for me is just that. There is no guarantee my methods will work as well, or may not even work at all, for others. I know other folks who do pull eggs and later on return the fry to the breeder tank as discussed above. In the end, we all have to find the way that works best for our specific set-ups.
No one has ever become poor by giving.” Anonymous
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”" Daniel Patrick Moynihan
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Speedy1985
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:44 pm
My cats species list: 10 (i:5, k:10)
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Spotted: 10
Location 1: USA
Location 2: NJ

Re: Moving Fry

Post by Speedy1985 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:26 pm

TwoTankAmin wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:53 pm
This does not apply to situations where "bad" dads are the problem and are either eating or booting viable eggs. The ove pleco I have worked with that did this were my P. compta.

My experience with Hypancistrus has been that the fry do best when they can be left in the breeder tank,I discovered this when I was lucky enough to acquire a proven breeding colony of zebras. I hit the jackpot and the 13 adults gave me close to 100 fry between mid-April and December. I had to begin to spread out the fry as it was insane be risking all my zebras being wiped out because of an issue in one tank. I also had an issue with the plumbing in the tank and ended up (before it was fixed) removing 10-12 tiny fry from a H.O.T. Magnum fry at its weekly cleaning. These fry were put into a growout tank. I also began pulling caves with dads on eggs/wiggler as well. However, I never remove all the fry from the breeder tank and this allowed me to see and compare the differing growth rates of the fry in each tank.

When I determined the kids in the breeder tank grew faster than those in the growout tank, I post abut this. I was surprised when some of the experts who had been helping me replied they had observed the same thing. They also noticed another phenomena I had observed. The alpha male in the tank was not the biggest fish but the second biggest fish.

My feeding solution for fry in breeder tanks is simple, I feed different sized foods. I first add BBS or cyclops to the tank and that finds its way to the fry. I follow that with the adult foods- brine, mysis, bloods, tubifex, etc. I also feed a lot of Repashy. Fry can eat this as well as adults. Finally, when pressed for time I will feed commercial sinking sticks which can also be consumed easily by fry as well as adults. It is essential that fry get fed regularly. If I am pressed for time and cannot feed all tanks, the fry always get food every day early on.

Finally, what works for me is just that. There is no guarantee my methods will work as well, or may not even work at all, for others. I know other folks who do pull eggs and later on return the fry to the breeder tank as discussed above. In the end, we all have to find the way that works best for our specific set-ups.
Thank you. I wound up moving the older group into their own 5.5g for now so that I could move the new group into the breeder box. Perhaps once the new ones get a little bit of size on them, I will have a go at moving them in with the adults.
As an aside, how often do you tend to feed your fry?

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bekateen
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Re: Moving Fry

Post by bekateen » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:15 pm

I feed fry 3x per day when possible, and remove uneaten food with a turkey baster.

Cheers, Eric
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Speedy1985
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Re: Moving Fry

Post by Speedy1985 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:32 pm

bekateen wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:15 pm
I feed fry 3x per day when possible, and remove uneaten food with a turkey baster.

Cheers, Eric
Ok. Generally, I feed twice a day.

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Re: Moving Fry

Post by TwoTankAmin » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:20 pm

For plecos its once a day. I rarely have issues with leftover food. The Repashy and the sinking sticks can last a while in the tank. The frozen not so much. When I had angel fry that was different, they got fed 3 times a day on live for the first 10 days. Then they were weaned onto cyclops.

I do not power feed my fish. I doubt that pleco fry in the wild are able to find as much good food every day compared to what they get in our tanks.

I recently went though a hospital stay, surgery and am still in recovery. From Sept 12 until the end of Oct the fish were poorly fed by my brother. They only got commercial sinking sticks and tanks without fry or smaller off spring got fed, at best, once a day. When I could take over, there were days I did not feed at all. I have just completed a head count of the fish in two such tanks and there were almost no losses at all. Maybe 4 or 5 fry out of about 95, with the smallest having been under 1/2 inch TL when they went into the tanks in August.

As always, this is how I do things and its neither the only way nor even the best way. But it has worked for the limited species with which I have worked.

p.s. During the above time, water changes got done only once every 3 weeks instead of weekly. I am still not quite back to weekly, but am close. More amazing is that some of the fish continued to spawn over the past 3 months.
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bekateen
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Re: Moving Fry

Post by bekateen » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:46 pm

To clarify, when I say I overfeed fry 3x per day, I mean specifically that I do this while the fry are in the fry basket. Food does not escape into the tank and things such as freeze-dried worms, shredded veggies and algae or earthworm flakes can easily be suctioned out. When fry are loose in the adult tank, I figure the fry are taking the scraps left over by the adults and I don't particularly feed more than normal (normal being if the fry were not present).

Cheers, Eric
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Speedy1985
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:44 pm
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Location 1: USA
Location 2: NJ

Re: Moving Fry

Post by Speedy1985 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:14 pm

bekateen wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:46 pm
To clarify, when I say I overfeed fry 3x per day, I mean specifically that I do this while the fry are in the fry basket. Food does not escape into the tank and things such as freeze-dried worms, shredded veggies and algae or earthworm flakes can easily be suctioned out. When fry are loose in the adult tank, I figure the fry are taking the scraps left over by the adults and I don't particularly feed more than normal (normal being if the fry were not present).



Cheers, Eric
TwoTankAmin wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:20 pm
For plecos its once a day. I rarely have issues with leftover food. The Repashy and the sinking sticks can last a while in the tank. The frozen not so much. When I had angel fry that was different, they got fed 3 times a day on live for the first 10 days. Then they were weaned onto cyclops.

I do not power feed my fish. I doubt that pleco fry in the wild are able to find as much good food every day compared to what they get in our tanks.

I recently went though a hospital stay, surgery and am still in recovery. From Sept 12 until the end of Oct the fish were poorly fed by my brother. They only got commercial sinking sticks and tanks without fry or smaller off spring got fed, at best, once a day. When I could take over, there were days I did not feed at all. I have just completed a head count of the fish in two such tanks and there were almost no losses at all. Maybe 4 or 5 fry out of about 95, with the smallest having been under 1/2 inch TL when they went into the tanks in August.

As always, this is how I do things and its neither the only way nor even the best way. But it has worked for the limited species with which I have worked.

p.s. During the above time, water changes got done only once every 3 weeks instead of weekly. I am still not quite back to weekly, but am close. More amazing is that some of the fish continued to spawn over the past 3 months.
OK, thank you both for your insight into different ways of going about feeding regimens. I know that most fish are pretty resilient, especially feeding for the reasons you stated TTA.

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