13 spawns in 6 weeks: It doesn't get much better than this (for me, anyway... oh wait, it does-17 spawns in 8 weeks)

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bekateen
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13 spawns in 6 weeks: It doesn't get much better than this (for me, anyway... oh wait, it does-17 spawns in 8 weeks)

Post by bekateen » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:28 am

Hi All,

In a few other posts here... ... I've reported recent pleco spawns, starting around December 5th when I found my first Ancistrus sp. Wabenmuster fry and Ancistrus sp. Rio Tocantins eggs, both firsts for me.

From December to January 9th, these are all the spawns I've found in my tanks: What a great 6 weeks it's been! I suspect it's all downhill after that, but let's pray and hope not! :)) :(( :YMHUG:

Hope you're also starting the year well!

Cheers, Eric
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Re: 13 spawns in 6 weeks: It doesn't get much better than this

Post by TwoTankAmin » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:22 pm

Nice work Eric @bekateen

I have had this happen with my Hypans a number of times and at a similar time of the year. All of a sudden I am getting spawns in almost all of my pleco tanks. I am wondering if there is some event of which we may not be aware, which triggers them?

I am usually looking for storms in this respect. Here in NY we get winter snow storms and this is often what I believe to be the trigger. Of course in the warmer months its rain, but I am not sure the fish know the difference.

I am relatively certain it is not due to a change in my tap water. We have our own well and the only time I see any real parameter change is if we have a series of heavy rainfalls over a couple of weeks. That results in my tap TDS dropping from the low 80 ppms to the mid 50s. However, this is a somewhat rare occurence.

The real issue here is, what the heck are you going to do with all those babies? :-p
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Re: 13 spawns in 6 weeks: It doesn't get much better than this

Post by Bas Pels » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:23 pm

Storms can have fast changes in air pressure - changes fish are able to detect, although I wonder how.

After all, the difference between half a ppi, that is some 50 cm water pressure, is something quite a few fish meet without consequence a day just going for a breath. But some do detect such a change in the atmosphere.
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Re: 13 spawns in 6 weeks: It doesn't get much better than this

Post by Lycosid » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:59 pm

Bas Pels wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:23 pm
Storms can have fast changes in air pressure - changes fish are able to detect, although I wonder how.

After all, the difference between half a ppi, that is some 50 cm water pressure, is something quite a few fish meet without consequence a day just going for a breath. But some do detect such a change in the atmosphere.
On the other hand, unlike terrestrial animals, pressure sensitivity tells a fish something important: how close it is to the surface. This means they're under evolutionary pressure to have this sense. How they correlate this with air pressure is less clear, but if you can see the surface you can presumably figure out that it feels "deep" even though you aren't.

There's lots of talk about animals sensing barometric pressure, most without evidence, but there is actually a study showing blacktip sharks abandoning a shallow reef for deep water in front of a hurricane, and due to real-time tracking we know they left just as the low pressure system hit them.

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Re: 13 spawns in 6 weeks: It doesn't get much better than this

Post by bekateen » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:23 am

Here's the local data for minimum barometric pressure and precipitation over the 6 weeks that the spawnings occurred. Two spawns (the initial wabenmuster spawn, the very first spawn, and the claro claro spawn, posted on Jan 1st) are estimated by date because I found hatched fry, and had to estimate backwards to predict spawn dates based on incubation times reported in the BLOGs.

Precipitation seems almost a better indicator that barometric pressure itself, but also, I do not have daily logs of feedings (e.g., when did they get worms or shrimp?) and especially water changes, which I think would have been informative.

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Re: 13 spawns in 6 weeks: It doesn't get much better than this

Post by Bas Pels » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:45 am

These don't tell much. Too bad.

Now feeding or water change, or a biological clock could explain matters, but there could also be another explanation.

An event, and that can still be barometric pressure, triggers spawning, but depending on the species, actual spawning will take some more time. For instance in order to develop eggs.

As the lime lapse could be very different depending on the species, this will be very hard to find.
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Re: 13 spawns in 6 weeks: It doesn't get much better than this

Post by bekateen » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:14 pm

Agreed
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Re: 13 spawns in 6 weeks: It doesn't get much better than this

Post by bekateen » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:22 pm

Just out of curiosity, I replotted the data, all on one graph, and extended the time before spawns one month, in order to see the atmospheric baseline prior to the spawning frenzies. What's obvious is that atmospheric pressure was pretty stable before the spawns, although not particularly high in value. And precipitation was non-existent. But what seemed to trigger spawns was instability - two really big drops in BP. After the initial spawns, there were a couple of surges (relative to the October baseline) in BP intermixed with mild drops.

To be fair, what's not shown is any L397 spawns I might have had in October. They breed so often that I do not record random spawns throughout the year. They may have spawned once or twice between 01-October and 20-November, but I wouldn't have noticed.

Cheers, Eric
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Re: 13 spawns in 6 weeks: It doesn't get much better than this

Post by MarcW » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:57 pm

You have been doing great with spawns recently Eric!

I haven't had any in a while, so at lunch I did (for the first time) several cold ~6-8c pure rain water changes ~30% to try and trigger spawns as we have had a few storms pass through in the past week.

I've done this to the following tanks:

Ancistrus sp(l393)
Hemiancistrus sp(l128) (F1)
Hypancistrus inspector
Panaqolus sp(l397)
Pseudancistrus sidereus
Spectracanthicus zuanoni

This took the temperature down ~8-10c in ~10 minutes, all fish showed increased activity during and shortly after the water change, maybe it was the fish equivalent of rubbing your hands together to try and keep warm :-) but it looked promising!

Good luck raising the young Eric!

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Re: 13 spawns in 6 weeks: It doesn't get much better than this

Post by bekateen » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:50 pm

Dekeyseria picta L052 hatching today, day 12 of incubation. At the same time, a female is trying to work her way into dad's cave again. \:d/ Go, Dad and Mom!

Cheers, Eric
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Re: 13 spawns in 6 weeks: It doesn't get much better than this

Post by bekateen » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:21 pm

Good news, no news, and bad news.
  • The good news is that more L052 eggs hatched overnight.
  • The no news is that this morning the couple were still trapping but no new eggs.
  • The bad news is that some of the L052 wigglers have already started dying. Any thoughts on why? The fry seem to be very expanded, almost like they have air bubbles inside (perhaps my toilet tank water current is too powerful?). The fry zip around the basket near the water surface a lot. Very frenetic activity.
Any suggestions appreciated.

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Re: 13 spawns in 6 weeks: It doesn't get much better than this

Post by TwoTankAmin » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:04 pm

@ bekateen
Looking at your graphs it appears clear to me that the barometric pressure drops preceded the spawning activity. It's like a leading indicator in economics. That the second drop is not as big as the first is not really an issue. Once most Hypans are triggered to spawn, they tend to continue doing so. That second drop was like a booster shot? Further, my experience has been that the spawning cycle in tanks tends to run for 9-10 months followed by a period of inactivity which I have seen between 3 and 4 months. Usually the hiatus lasts about 3.5 for my fish. So the annual cycle becomes more like a 12 -14 month cycle.

I should not that my experience has been with groups of from 8 to 15 fish. it would not surprise me if in bigger groups, there may not be a complete halt.
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Re: 13 spawns in 6 weeks: It doesn't get much better than this

Post by bekateen » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:06 pm

FWIW, I've moved all follow-up posts about my Dekeyseria picta L052 spawns to this thread: Repeat spawning of Dekeyseria picta L052
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Re: 13 spawns in 6 weeks: It doesn't get much better than this (for me, anyway... oh wait, it does-17 spawns in 8 weeks)

Post by bekateen » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:44 pm

Two more Dekeyseria picta L052 spawns in the last 24 hours or so (here), and at least one more L397 spawn in the last week. And when I include the baby Microsynodontis sp(1) I found earlier this week (reported here; although, to be fair, that baby is probably from a spawn several months ago), I'm now up to at least 17 spawns discovered in less than 8 weeks. :YMPRAY: :YMPRAY: :YMPRAY: \:d/

The new count is this: From December to January 23rd, I've found in my tanks: When it ends, I'm sure I'll become depressed for my "failures in fishkeeping." :(( But for now I'm gonna ride this wave of joy as long as it lasts! \:d/ :YMPARTY:

Cheers, Eric
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