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Here are the 3 little clowns we are discussing I have more pictures from this evening but I will have to sort out who’s who.

They're probably all Panaqolus, but that one is very atypical.

The odd one looks more like LDA 67. They are often mixed in with shipments of P. maccus from Colombia. Nice find. Care conditions for both spp are the same.
-Shane

Shane wrote: ↑04 Dec 2020, 11:44 The odd one looks more like LDA 67. They are often mixed in with shipments of P. maccus from Colombia. Nice find. Care conditions for both spp are the same.
-Shane

Would these cross?

I noticed that under the L104 there aren't any pictures of a male flaring his gill plates to show off his odontids. While snagging the juveniles out of the tank one of my adult males was flaring for me and growling too. I did not test the odontids for ability to puncture human skin

I have no idea if they would cross. I think it doubtful that with adequate mate choices from their own sp they would. But a one off L67 in a tank of all P. maccus might due to a lack of suitable partners. Personally, I would not mix them in a breeding set up. What would be awesome would be to comb through shipments and get groups of both spp set up and spawning.
-Shane

Shane wrote: ↑05 Dec 2020, 13:23 I have no idea if they would cross. I think it doubtful that with adequate mate choices from their own sp they would. But a one off L67 in a tank of all P. maccus might due to a lack of suitable partners. Personally, I would not mix them in a breeding set up. What would be awesome would be to comb through shipments and get groups of both spp set up and spawning.
-Shane

I am considering a call to imperial to see if they would comb through there L104 stock to see if there are any more LDA67. It's a juvie so I at least have some time before spawning even enters its mind Thank you for the answers

After roughly a week of cool 72F temps I plugged the heater back in after a substantial water change. I have also rearranged the caves so some are perpendicular to the tank.
I have seen one male hanging out of a cave but can’t see into it as the chosen cave is one perpendicular to the front.

My spawning tank for these guys looked much like this. They do not need seasonal changes and in the wild spawn year round. I have collected babies in both the wet and dry seasons in Venezuela.
-Shane

Shane wrote: ↑08 Dec 2020, 22:08 My spawning tank for these guys looked much like this. They do not need seasonal changes and in the wild spawn year round. I have collected babies in both the wet and dry seasons in Venezuela.
-Shane

Wow, that's a lot of wood. Do you have caves drilled into those?

I had bamboo and ceramic caves placed throughout the set up. They preferred bamboo but there were spawns in ceramic caves as well. My breeding tank was a 40 breeder with a Marineland Emperor 400 HOB and an extra Marineland 550 powerhead (145 gph) with venturi attached to a sponge pre-filter. So turnover was about 14 times tank volume per hour. Water changes were 50-60% weekly. I just used local tap water which is hard and alkaline (pH 7.6).
I miss living in Washington. In Bellingham we had basically RO water from the tap. It is not lost on me that we see clusters of very successful pleco breeders in parts of the world with high quality soft water on tap.
-Shane

Hmm, I will try to learn patience. If they don't care about seasonal changes or water parameters then I should be seeing babies like crazy.

I have a significant snail invasion in the L104 tank. I do not feed prepared foods regularly as there are multiple alder logs for them to chew on. I am considering dosing copper in the tank to destroy the snails. Would this have an adverse effect on the L104?

I am not a fan. Check out this link

http://help.bioworldusa.com/kb/algae-tr ... ic-to-fish

Additionally a sudden massive die off of snails can pollute a tank very quickly (even if the fish survive the treatment, which is known to be particularly hard on scaleless fishes).

Have you tried snail traps or assassin snails? Assassin snails can easily bloom to the point of a plague, but at least they are easy to sell.
-Shane

Shane wrote: ↑05 Jan 2021, 21:10 I am not a fan. Check out this link

http://help.bioworldusa.com/kb/algae-tr ... ic-to-fish

Additionally a sudden massive die off of snails can pollute a tank very quickly (even if the fish survive the treatment, which is known to be particularly hard on scaleless fishes).

Have you tried snail traps or assassin snails? Assassin snails can easily bloom to the point of a plague, but at least they are easy to sell.
-Shane

I know to dose half dose in freshwater but I did not know about the alkalinity of the water effecting the interaction. I have added 4 baby assassins to the tank. I haven't tried traps but I do pull the logs out of the tank periodically and wipe the snails off. I have 5 pea puffers I can move in there too which would give them a fast food restaurant buffet

If you can find or order one of these, get it. They are amazingly efficient and collecting a lot of snails:



https://www.sera.de/us/product/freshwat ... l-collect/

I rarely see them for sale in the USA. I've been told by people who should know that Sera does not market them in the USA because they fall under the category of pest control (which includes poisons) and are thus hamstrung by too much US govt regulation.

However, I've also spoken to a person who works in one of the offices of the US Govt that does oversee regulation of pest control chemicals and they swear these do not fall under US govt regulations/oversight.

I stumbled upon one in a Las Vegas, NV local fish store last year for about $20USD. Best $20 I ever spent... on snail control at least.

Cheers, Eric

P.S.

Shane wrote: ↑05 Jan 2021, 21:10Have you tried snail traps or assassin snails? Assassin snails can easily bloom to the point of a plague, but at least they are easy to sell.
-Shane

I really like assassin snails. I've bought or traded to get dozens over the years. Somehow, though, they die in my tanks without their eggs hatching successfully (I find eggs but never find baby assassins). I wish I knew why not.

Thanks, I do too. We really need a "like" button.

fishguy1978 wrote: ↑06 Jan 2021, 03:38We really need a "like" button.

Been there. Thought that.

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=41404

bekateen wrote: ↑06 Jan 2021, 05:23

fishguy1978 wrote: ↑06 Jan 2021, 03:38We really need a "like" button.

Been there. Thought that.

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=41404

Whew, thanks.

Awesome thread! I love those alder cone caves! I'm gonna get some myself!
I did a search and can't seem to find alder caves or nice bamboo caves in the USA.

AmazonTank wrote: ↑10 Jan 2021, 15:01 Awesome thread! I love those alder cone caves! I'm gonna get some myself!
I did a search and can't seem to find alder caves or nice bamboo caves in the USA.

I found a down and dead alder tree in the woods behind the house and just used a saw to cut sections. You could do the same with oak, maple, or fruit trees. I used 1in and 1.25in diameter spade bits to drill the caves. I am considering a redue and will drill .75 and 1in caves.

Thanks for your message.
I figured it was custom work! I been noticing they do seem to love those tighter caves.

Nothing to report other than water changes.

The wait is the hardest part.

Cheers, Eric

Did a water change and raised the temp on the heater to upper 80's F.

I had the temperature up around 88F for the last 2 weeks. 90% water change and dropped the temp down into the 70s F. Maybe....

Fingers crossed.

First time reading through the thread, any updates?

Woodh wrote: ↑11 May 2021, 13:03 First time reading through the thread, any updates?

Unfortunately, no. I am in the process of setting up a 260g (984L) tank and am considering moving them into it.

It took years before mine started breeding...... my suggestion is this. Stop with the large weekly water changes and stop messing with the temp. I bred mine in ~78 degree water.... I know others that bred theirs in much warmer water so temp has little to do with it. My thought with them is this, they need a more stable water temp and parameters to breed. So let your tank get a little dirty, no water changes for at lest 10 day. Then do smaller water changes every few days (~10% not 50%). As was said before fry are found year round so to me that indicates they breed when the water temp and parameters are more stable...... changing them greatly may very well put them off to breeding (in my thinking anyways). And be patient..... try not trying and that may do the trick!


HTH
Chuck