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Didn't purchase, but seen these guys at the store

1: labeled a common pleco, is a juvenile. Lovely coloring on this guy 2: labeled cucuta pleco, but to me looks like standard BN plecos. None were on glass to see bellies though.

The first is one of the common plecos in the genus Pterygoplichthys, maybe . But most of these are farmed and some of them can be hybrids. The second is probably a common BN, unless the seller went to great trouble to import cucuta BNs.

Cheers, Eric

bekateen wrote: ↑30 Sep 2021, 01:39 The first is one of the common plecos in the genus Pterygoplichthys, maybe

Pterygoplichthys gibbiceps

. But most of these are farmed and some of them can be hybrids. The second is probably a common BN, unless the seller went to great trouble to import cucuta BNs.

Cheers, Eric

They do import odd fish every now and again, but price is on par with common BN plecos as well, so hard to say. They're rather nice fish though, I do like the standard color, most often see albino here.

Ive not seen any juvie "commons" with colours like his in a long while, he stood out quite a bit. Shame he gets too large for me lol gibbiceps are very beautiful plecos.

Cucuta, which is a town on the Colombia/Venezuela border, seems like an oddly specific common name for a store to use. There are several brownish Ancistrus recorded from drainages in that area. I would take a hard look at those fish.
-Shane

Shane wrote: ↑30 Sep 2021, 11:45 Cucuta, which is a town on the Colombia/Venezuela border, seems like an oddly specific common name for a store to use. There are several brownish Ancistrus recorded from drainages in that area. I would take a hard look at those fish.
-Shane

I may go back for another look, but may purchase any because I can't guarantee a permanent tank if it needs warmer water since that area tends to run warmer than some other places. Already have plecos in 2 tanks, and the 3rd tank I could have a pleco in runs cold (goldfish and hoplos, temps 70-72F)
I could potentially juggle one of my cf cirrhosis to the colder tank, and keep that in there, but that'd be a task and a half netting anyone haha.

I'll try to get some close looks though at the very least.

Shane wrote: ↑30 Sep 2021, 11:45 Cucuta, which is a town on the Colombia/Venezuela border, seems like an oddly specific common name for a store to use. There are several brownish Ancistrus recorded from drainages in that area. I would take a hard look at those fish.
-Shane

I went back, got some more photos including belly shots and side views. Handsome fish, I ended up taking one home anyways, worth the tank juggle if it needs warmer water.
What are your thoughts? Seem very broad headed compared to my cf cirrhosis at home. And all have bristles on the lip, some obvious males with extended onto the nose.

Acclimation and size reference.

Hi Miss Noodle,

Here are your last 6 pics, all laid out with same orientation and scaled to help viewing. Looking at the fish, and seeing the spotted pattern, this is certainly not . It is more reminiscent of , which has a spotted body and a wide head. That said, as Shane noted, the location is not a typical source for exported fish. I'm also looking at , but the head of your fish looks wider.

I'm not sure it's worth anything, but the mouths visible on the two ventral pics are really different in shape. Perhaps just the animals' postures are different at time of photography? If real and not a photo aberration, then different sexes (e.g. head angle differs)? or different species altogether?

Cheers, Eric

bekateen wrote: ↑04 Oct 2021, 22:42 Hi Miss Noodle,

Here are your last 6 pics, all laid out with same orientation and scaled to help viewing. Looking at the fish, and seeing the spotted pattern, this is certainly not

Ancistrus sp`cucuta`

. It is more reminiscent of

Ancistrus martini

, which has a spotted body and a wide head. That said, as Shane noted, the location is not a typical source for exported fish. I'm also looking at

Ancistrus triradiatus

, but the head of your fish looks wider.

I'm not sure it's worth anything, but the mouths visible on the two ventral pics are really different in shape. Perhaps just the animals' postures are different at time of photography? If real and not a photo aberration, then different sexes (e.g. head angle differs)? or different species altogether?

Cheers, Eric

Thank you!
Though I am also noting this fish lacks the spotted/reticulated? belly of martini, but on the one belly shot on the other one there shows no markings on the underside.
Does this factor into anything at all?

Currently acclimating into my warmer water 55g

Add after your edit, fish in the underside photos in store are of different individuals. The wider mouthed one looked more female to me while the other certainly had more bristle coverage classic with a young male.

But one does have spots, the one I brought home does not. I will get a belly/mouth view of the fish I've got.

My fish

MissNoodle wrote: ↑04 Oct 2021, 22:54Add after your edit, fish in the underside photos in store are of different individuals. The wider mouthed one looked more female to me while the other certainly had more bristle coverage classic with a young male.

But one does have spots, the one I brought home does not. I will get a belly/mouth view of the fish I've got.

Yes I can see faint markings on the belly of one of the fish in your photos. I was going to say (from memory) that your fish appeared to have a pale underbelly, but actually it's quite dark in your photos. I don't think that excludes the species discussed.

Cheers, Eric

Awesome then! Hopefully my L240 doesn't mind a neighbor in his tank. Going to assume it will fare best in 76F-80F range given if it is those species, they come from a warmer area, so probably a safe bet to keep her higher 70s than in a cooler tank then

On the positive side you found something neat. On the negative, it is probably just one of the dozens (perhaps 100s) of undescribed brown Ancistrus spp in the Andes.
Galvis et al (Peces del Catatumbo) show a fish very similar to yours and label it A. triradiatus, which is incorrect as this sp is from Orinoco drainages in the llanos 470 miles to the south.
Schultz described two spp from the drainage (martini and bodenhameri). These were later placed in synonymy but this is not accepted in German hobbyists circles. I would tend to agree with them.
The pictures we have of martini are preserved specimens. Preservation often brings out pigmentation patterns we do not see in live fishes. This is especially true with fish like loricariids that can change their coloration and pattern based on environment.
I'll dig up Schultz today and see if we get lucky on a match, but it can be a fools game to try to match fish to a described sp when we know that only a tiny portion of the genus is formally described. This is the biggest mistake made by hobbyists and scientists (note Galvis et al ref above).
As far as temps, Cucuta is considered cold by Venezuelans and Colombians. People from Cucuta are called "gochos" (swine) because they tend to have lighter skin and the cool weather causes their cheeks to turn pink. This is a great amusement to people that have never been some place cold enough to experience rosy cheeks on a brisk morning.
-Shane

Shane wrote: ↑05 Oct 2021, 11:10 On the positive side you found something neat. On the negative, it is probably just one of the dozens (perhaps 100s) of undescribed brown Ancistrus spp in the Andes.
Galvis et al (Peces del Catatumbo) show a fish very similar to yours and label it A. triradiatus, which is incorrect as this sp is from Orinoco drainages in the llanos 470 miles to the south.
Schultz described two spp from the drainage (martini and bodenhameri). These were later placed in synonymy but this is not accepted in German hobbyists circles. I would tend to agree with them.
The pictures we have of martini are preserved specimens. Preservation often brings out pigmentation patterns we do not see in live fishes. This is especially true with fish like loricariids that can change their coloration and pattern based on environment.
I'll dig up Schultz today and see if we get lucky on a match, but it can be a fools game to try to match fish to a described sp when we know that only a tiny portion of the genus is formally described. This is the biggest mistake made by hobbyists and scientists (note Galvis et al ref above).
As far as temps, Cucuta is considered cold by Venezuelans and Colombians. People from Cucuta are called "gochos" (swine) because they tend to have lighter skin and the cool weather causes their cheeks to turn pink. This is a great amusement to people that have never been some place cold enough to experience rosy cheeks on a brisk morning.
-Shane

Oh awesome! Would be interested to see.


She is showing some nice brown tones now that she's settled into her new home. Very prominent cheek spikes too, wouldn't wanna get jabbed by those lol.
I keep the tank no colder than 76F but no hotter than 80F

If this proves to be too warm, I can move her to a tank that sits 72F-75F

Assumed it'd be warmer since the profile for L240 runs hot on the temps and it's on the Venezuela/Columbia border area as well. Goes to show south american climate is more complex than one initially thinks.

Original description A. bodenhameri. Compare to your fish as she settles in.
-Shane

Photo from Galvis.
-Shane

Shane wrote: ↑05 Oct 2021, 15:39 Original description A. bodenhameri. Compare to your fish as she settles in.
-Shane

So given that it's been merged with a. Martini, can assume that beckateen has it correct then?

The description is pretty spot on. Dorsal does have a pale tip restricted to the first 2 rays, causal does as well. Dull spotting as well, not bold as seen in the common cf cirrhosis.

Ive been calling this one a she, pretty wide body so assuming female despite the bristles--nearly all the fish in the store had bristles to some extent, some same size as this had more bristles up the face with branching starting--assumed those male, while this one and others very little and restricted to just the lip assumed female until proven otherwise.
But going off my cirrhosis at this size, males would have had more bristles at the size this fish is at.

My area has a terrible market for the common bristlenose (oversaturated, everyone trying to sell babies lol), and I doubt these guys would stand out to many here as something worth buying over the other BN plecos. Unsure if it would be worth going back for a male, the price was really good. But, if I did end up going with a pair, the market is not too good. Aside from other catfish and pleco fans, they may not sell as well should they do breed. I adore plecos and catfish, but also do not wish to be overrun either since some plecos can breed like rabbits, though not a guarantee for this species

At same time, chances of them being in stock again are so so slim.


Gah, decisions decisions.

A pair may irritate my L240 juvenile and may cause a fight over caves so might be poking the sleeping bear on that one and best leave it alone

. So given that it's been merged with a. Martini, can assume that beckateen has it correct then?

I do not agree that A. bodenhameri is synonym of A. martini. I went back and read the Trans Andean paper again and am even more convinced after reviewing their reasoning.

Your second point (the market is saturated) was what made me make my good news\bad news comment above. They are only interesting to people that have a thing for brown Ancistrus. We have a local club member spawning a brown sp he collected in Peru. They don't sell well in the auctions while long finned albino common Ancistrus sell like hot cakes. Sigh....
-Shane

Shane wrote: ↑05 Oct 2021, 18:54

. So given that it's been merged with a. Martini, can assume that beckateen has it correct then?

I do not agree that A. bodenhameri is synonym of A. martini. I went back and read the Trans Andean paper again and am even more convinced after reviewing their reasoning.

Your second point (the market is saturated) was what made me make my good news\bad news comment above. They are only interesting to people that have a thing for brown Ancistrus. We have a local club member spawning a brown sp he collected in Peru. They don't sell well in the auctions while long finned albino common Ancistrus sell like hot cakes. Sigh....
-Shane

Well yes, agreed. It's like schultzei vs aeneus in cories. Currently classed the same species but are clearly different. Usually there's a reason they were classed differently at first. And inevitably get separated again at some point.

What I mean is just for sake of marking down it in my keepers list.

I think I'm going for a male anyways too, given the scarcity I feel I will regret it too much if I passed this opportunity up. Plus no guarantee that they'd spawn anyways, and I think I could work out solutions if they did. At least in terms of keeping peace.

That said, I do like the brown plain ones too, but here in my area even the fancy cirrhosis colours don't sell well. There's several sellers all for cheaper than the stores and can take months to sell lol

But I also asked around some locals and there is considerable interest in these ones at the very least. There's a couple pleco fans here who aren't just into "flashy" fish

Male acquired!

Gonna try to get more views of him as he settles

Put me down for some fry!
-Shane

He has settled in, hes way less shy than the female is as well.
I have to say, I love the way the texture on the skin shines on these guys. Makes them almost look gilded with gold. They're "plain" at first appearance, but are subtly really beautiful plecos. Very happy I decided to pick them up.

My L240 doesn't seem bothered to have them in the same tank either, he sticks to his own area and they dont go near him. They prefer to stay on the driftwood, while my L240 likes his cave area.

Looks great! Good luck with them.

Cheers, Eric

I've added these pictures, with a degree of discomfort, into the entry. The belly patterning bothers me - while patterning is sometimes initially emboldened in preserved fishes, much less so on soft skin.

I could add a note to these ones noting they are closer to the description of A. bodenhameri? Or go "full schultzi" and just split out the species. Would welcome a discussion.

Cheers,

Jools

Jools wrote: ↑24 Oct 2021, 09:40 I've added these pictures, with a degree of discomfort, into the

Ancistrus martini

entry. The belly patterning bothers me - while patterning is sometimes initially emboldened in preserved fishes, much less so on soft skin.

I could add a note to these ones noting they are closer to the description of A. bodenhameri? Or go "full schultzi" and just split out the species. Would welcome a discussion.

Cheers,

Jools

If it helps, I have a new photo of the male on the glass, he's got some faint markings but hard to see.

That really does help, is that the same fish as the pic we used (perhaps that was the female)?

Jools

My own two cents is not to put them in as a known described sp. I would add them as Ancistrus sp # and note the trade name they were imported under and that they may be one of the described spp from that drainage but we can't make offer a definitive identification without verified provenience information.
-Shane

Jools wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021, 10:06 That really does help, is that the same fish as the pic we used (perhaps that was the female)?

Jools

The other one was the female.