Unknown tatia

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What do you think it is?

Tatia Concolor
0
No votes
Tata aff. Simplex
0
No votes
undescribed species
0
No votes
other
2
100%
 
Total votes: 2

Catfish-ologist
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Unknown tatia

Post by Catfish-ologist »

About 3 weeks ago I ordered a group of 6 "Balroglanis schultzi" from an online fish-store. I had a qt tank prepared for them and a 30g permanent tank ready to go. The only concerning thing for me was the fact that they were supposedly 1" long. When I heard this it frighted me that a group of young fish might be more sensitive than older fish. Anyways the fish showed up and all of them were healthy. The only problem is they weren't schultzi, the moment I picked up the first bag I screamed "simplex". After looking at the fish once they regained color I soon did not think simplex was a proper id. From the hours upon hours of wood cat research I have done the best id I could think of is Tatia concolor. I quickly contacted my good friend Jeremy Basch, he had the same id of concolor. So I assumed I had received some concolor. The only thing that didn't add up is the fact that concolor is found in Suriname not Brazil. Then earlier today I received Steven Grants new book conveniently on wood cats. (Awesome book by the way can't wait to look at it in more detail. :d) When I flipped to page 246 I noticed a very familiar fish, The unidentified fish I have been caring for! In this wonderful book it was listed as Tatia aff. simplex. The final thing that told me it was this fish was the aff. simplex is apparently from the xingu. What is your opinion on the id of this fish?
Here is the photo of my fish. This is the only photo I have at the moment.
IMG-2977.jpg

This is the fish in the book, see the square-like dots all over the body?
IMG-2976.jpg

What do you think it is? Answer in the poll then share your extended thoughts.
thanks,
-- Sean
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Re: Unknown tatia

Post by bekateen »

Hi Sean,

Are you sure these fish are Brazilian? Might they be Peruvian?

viewtopic.php?t=46629

Cheers, Eric
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Re: Unknown tatia

Post by Catfish-ologist »

These are 100% Brazilian fish, this is why I am stumped.
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Re: Unknown tatia

Post by bekateen »

Okay. Dang. Cool!
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Re: Unknown tatia

Post by Jools »

What do you see when looking at the fish to make you think it's not ? Your fish appears to have clear fins but I can't really tell if the body shape looks too long or not for this species.

Cheers,

Jools
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Re: Unknown tatia

Post by Catfish-ologist »

Personally I have always associated simplex with a white-gray fish with small trout-like speckles. This fish is white-brown with square-like dots.
Let me throw a question right back at you.
What makes you think it is not concolor?
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Re: Unknown tatia

Post by Jools »

Catfish-ologist wrote: 08 Mar 2022, 23:24What makes you think it is not concolor? [].
Mostly because we know it's not from the Coppename river. But also I could not see the diamond-shaped tip of the dorsal shield. What I can't readily see from your pic that would also help is the length of the anal fin in relation to the adipose fin, and also the anal fin rays (looks like 5 or 6 but I can't be sure).

I have the original 1974 description of this species and it's, lighter, subsequent treatment in Mol's Suriname book if you are interested.

On spots, have a look at the variance in Tatia boemia in this paper - not sure it's a reliable characteristic for these species.

HTH,

Jools
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Re: Unknown tatia

Post by Catfish-ologist »

OK, I just did a water change and got some photos of the fish. Hopefully they have the data you need.
IMG-3006 (1).jpg
IMG-3007.jpg
IMG-3003.jpg
IMG-3004.jpg
IMG-3002.jpg
next post has more photos
Oh I'm only gonna get 1 tank for 1 catfish...(every time I see a catfish)! - Sean Hensley 2021

There may be limited space for catfish tanks but there is unlimited space for catfish knowledge. - Sean Hensley 2022

Everyone has limits. not everyone accepts them. - Anonymous
Catfish-ologist
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Re: Unknown tatia

Post by Catfish-ologist »

Sorry for the excessive amounts of photos and the fact some photos have a centimeter side and one has an inches ruler.
Attachments
IMG-3017.jpg
IMG-3018.jpg
IMG-3016.jpg
IMG-3022.jpg
IMG-3009.jpg
Oh I'm only gonna get 1 tank for 1 catfish...(every time I see a catfish)! - Sean Hensley 2021

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Re: Unknown tatia

Post by Jools »

Beyond distribution, I'm not sure how T. aff. simplex differs from T. simplex. But based on the pics I would call it (indeed both) T. simplex because I'm not sure of the diff. I would not be surprised to see a Brazilian species described for your fish in time mind you!

Jools
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Re: Unknown tatia

Post by Catfish-ologist »

I just wanted to provide a quick update on these. I have officially had them for 51 weeks and they have certainly matured. I have only been seeing males so I have been quite frightened by the fact I might not have a viable group. Today, assuming they were all males, I was planning on adding my colony to a Xingu display with Hypancistrus zebra. At Catcon, I conversed with Dr. Leandro Sousa and he confirmed with me that this species is found with zebras in the wild. Anyways, I pulled out all the fish and I realized that I actually have a single female. I proceeded to leave the group isolated in their home. I have assumed they were all males for quite some time and I have never bothered to give them extra caves or mops. I am excited to now have an accurate count on my group and I am happy to say I have 5 males and one female. Over the past year, I have become a lot more interested in the taxonomy of this family. I have been trying to search the internet and I can't find the original description of simplex. I have found a few mentions of the fact that it was described off of a single juvenile specimen. I haven't been able to find any photos of "simplex" or "concolor" that are female. All photos are either adult males or juveniles. After browsing a few catalogs of collections, I can't find anyone who has an identified simplex specimen. I am very proud to say that I may have the only female Tatia aff. simplex to be confirmed. Anyways, if you still have it I would be interested in that original paper you have Jools. I would like to have the data. For now I will be continuing to attempt to breed them. I don't see why it can't be done, I have the experience with other species to do it.
Thanks,
-- Sean
Oh I'm only gonna get 1 tank for 1 catfish...(every time I see a catfish)! - Sean Hensley 2021

There may be limited space for catfish tanks but there is unlimited space for catfish knowledge. - Sean Hensley 2022

Everyone has limits. not everyone accepts them. - Anonymous
User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 8955
Joined: 09 Sep 2014, 17:50
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My Wishlist: 35
Spotted: 177
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
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Contact:

Re: Unknown tatia

Post by bekateen »

Cool stuff, Sean. Now that you have a female, I hope you get a spawn. That would be great!

Cheers,
Eric
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Re: Unknown tatia

Post by Tanganyikafreak »

Good luck Sean
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