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Hi sorry if this isn't the right place to ask

Is there any kind of guide already, or could someone explain for me, how people identify what family an unidentified pleco is from by their mouth structure?

Thank you in advance, becky

Hi MoonstruckRainbows,

There are distinct arrangements of teeth, numbers of teeth, and shapes of teeth which can be seen when examining several genera of loricariids. I am unaware of any single source on this, but if you look at the photos in the CLOG, many species are shown with close-ups of the mouth to help with this.

Cheers, Eric

Thank you for your reply
Ive seen a few different mouth types when looking through various L nums, I hoped there may be some kind of guide or datasheet of type, diet, mouth features.
As there isn't, maybe it's something I could begin working on as I look through pics to learn myself, may be useful for others?

MoonstruckRainbows wrote: ↑26 Apr 2022, 01:04 Thank you for your reply
Ive seen a few different mouth types when looking through various L nums, I hoped there may be some kind of guide or datasheet of type, diet, mouth features.
As there isn't, maybe it's something I could begin working on as I look through pics to learn myself, may be useful for others?

Although I'm unaware of any guides, you might want to check in the list of Shane'sWorld articles. Maybe there's something there.

@Jools, are you aware of any such resource?

Cheers,
Eric

It really would not make sense as things like oral disc shape and dentition are only single characteristics considered in identifying a loricariid genus or species.
- Shane

It's quite common and very human to formulate a classification system based on ones own unique needs. Different use creates different perspectives and priorities.

Go for it. Even if it only helps yourself, that's reward enough.

Hi,

there is no official key to identify a species by looking on a mouth/oral disk. It's all about experience, one day you will have that kind of a feeling that "a mouth" should belong to "a species" or at least a genus. The genus is easy, but the species requires hundreds of hundreds mouths to look at first. It is fun though, and as said above, it is a great reward for yourself.

Shane wrote: ↑26 Apr 2022, 12:15It really would not make sense as things like oral disc shape and dentition are only single characteristics considered in identifying a loricariid genus or species.
- Shane

Acanthicus wrote: ↑26 Apr 2022, 16:47Hi,

there is no official key to identify a species by looking on a mouth/oral disk. It's all about experience, one day you will have that kind of a feeling that "a mouth" should belong to "a species" or at least a genus. The genus is easy, but the species requires hundreds of hundreds mouths to look at first. It is fun though, and as said above, it is a great reward for yourself.

That's what I was thinking - mostly helpful only at the generic level, and even then not always since some genera have similar dentition.

Thanks Shane and Acanthicus.

aquaholic wrote: ↑26 Apr 2022, 15:31It's quite common and very human to formulate a classification system based on ones own unique needs. Different use creates different perspectives and priorities.

Go for it. Even if it only helps yourself, that's reward enough.

You said it well, aquaholic. I think the benefit of the exercise is that it forces whomever attempts this to take a deep-dive of learning into loricariid mouths, and even if they don't end up with a report that is universally applicable across the family, they will have learned A LOT! and in that way they've become so much more knowledgeable about loricariids.

Cheers!
Eric

Thanks all!

Genus was the word that escaped me when I first wrote the post that was what I meant by "family".

As everyone has mentioned, there is ALOT of factors to identifying species & genus, and ALOT of species. An overwhelming quantity of species

My brain likes patterns and groupings and indicators, and thought beginning with learning mouth types for diet & potential genus indicators would be a good starting point!

If anyone has suggestions of a better starting point for species/genus indicators, I'm all ears

Thanks,
Becky x

Higher level loricariid taxonomy is in a constant state of flux. However, I think the best starting point for what you are after is to become familiar with the subfamilies and their tribes. The subfamilies are: Delturinae, Hypoptopomatinae, Hypostominae, Lithogeneinae, Loricariinae, and Neoplecostominae.

Of these six, the hobby is really only focused on Hypoptopomatinae, Hypostominae, and Loricariinae. In my presentations I call these the Gnats, Fats, and Flats. Gnats include the small schooling species like Otocinclus. The Fats are all the more robust body genera like Panaque and Hypostomus. Lastly, the Flats include the gracile genera like Farlowella and Rineloricaria.

Moving down from subfamily we get Tribes. So, for example, the Flats are broken into two tribes. Genera like Loricaria and other substrate dwellers in one tribe and "verticle" dwellers like Sturisoma and Farlowella in the other.

With a good grip on subfamilies and tribes you'll be able to identify any loricariid at a glance. Getting to the exact species is then just looking at "minor" details.

-Shane
PS On a funny note I looked at Wikipedia while writing this only to see that I am one of the sources they used. I am literally quoting myself lol.

Thank you!!
Thats a brilliant start you've given me, very very much appreciated.
Gnats, fats & flats is a really good easy way to help remember the subfamilies
Definitely asked in the right place if you're literally the wiki source!,