PlanetCatfish.com

Hi,

I'm new to this site and relatively new to the passion of pleco's I'm from the UK and have a 180L tank with four fancy goldfish and two bristlenose's, and more recently fell for the charms of a tiny butterfly plec who is absolutely gorgeous, he's now firmly installed a 40L tank. Both tanks are heated to 74 degrees.

I have a couple of questions that I hope someone will be able to answer for me. The first is concerning the use of salt. If for any reason I have needed to salt my tank I have always removed the plecs as although there seems much debate about how salt tolerant they are, I don't want to risk it. Just for info though, can anyone tell me why salt is bad for plecs and what damage it does please?

My final question is, what is the importance of keeping wood in the aquarium please?

Many thanks

Hi Goldgirl,

If by butterfly plec, you mean the Hillstream Loach, it's actually not a catfish.. But never mind, you're here now...

See this thread for example: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... ream+loach

As to the salt. I'd say you don't need to add salt to the aquarium. There are SOME fish that are better off with salt in the tank, but in 99.9% of all fish, the tap water contains enough (or sometimes too much [1]) minerals for the fish, and there's no need to add any more minerals, table salt or other types.

[1] Most water in the UK is on the hard which is why the kettle goes all white on the inside, and it's contrary to most tropical fish's natural environment. Many of them are fine to live in harder water than their natural water, but most would be happier in less hard water. There are several things that you can do about this.
A: the easiest one is to "just ignore it". If the fish seem happy, that's probably fine for them.
B: Get some additive to the filter that softens the water, usually peat-based.
C: Use a Reverse Osmosis(RO) unit. A RO unit will almost completely remove minerals from the water. In fact, they are so efficient that you will need to ADD minerals to make sure that there are enough salts in the water for the fish to be happy.
D: Get RO water (with or without salts) from some local fish shop.

Alternate A seems like a good one for your fish, as neither hillstream loaches, bristlenoses are particularly sensitive to the water chemistry as long as the water is reasonably clean, and we all know that goldfish (fancy or otherwise) are about as hardy as any fish will come. So as long as you keep changing the water every now and again, you'll be fine.

If you ever plan to keep for instance Discus-fish, you'd certainly be looking to find a way to soften the water...

Sorry for the extra lecture...

--
Mats

Hi MatsP

Thanks for your reply. It could well be a Hillstream Loach by the look of that picture. The lfs told me it only grows to 5 cm is that correct do you know? Sounds like they know as much as loaches/plecs/catfish as they do about Goldfish, I should have guessed I'll attempt to post a photo asap.

The reason for my salt question is that on occasion I have had to treat the goldies with salt in the past for medical reasons. Fancy's unfortunately aren't that hardy (contrary to popular belief) however single-tails ie.Comet's, they're a different story, you'd need a shotgun to do them any harm I think as with any fish keeping as long as the water params are fine, problems are few and far between. The goldies I keep would faint if you so much as waved a bottle of ammonia at them!

I live in the North of the UK in an area where we have soft water so no furry kettles for us! The question about salt is purely in a 'curious to know' what makes them salt intolerant. It's a question that comes up frequently on the Goldfish site I belong to, but try as I might I can't find the why's and wherefores to give a proper explanation. I'm just in the 'I wouldn't risk it brigade'. BTW table salt is a big no no, the caking agents/ additives are potentially lethal!

AFAIK, Hillstream Loaches don't grow particularly big, so should be OK in the a 40L tank for sure.

As to LFS knowing about things: If you find one that DOES know more than you on more than a few things, and are honest when they DON'T know (which is actually MORE important...), then I'd recommend to stick with them. There are MANY fish shops that are staffed mainly by people who don't know much about anything. Usually there is SOMEONE there that actually knows at least a bit more, but not always. And finding this SOMEONE is often a problem, because they tend to be busy away from the shop floor, off on sat/sun, etc.

Salt is a good medication on certain conditions (ich for example), simply because it's more poisonous to the cause of the condition than to the fish. However, different fish are more or less tolerant to salt themselves, and what would kill some pest in the tank, would potentially also kill some fish. Some catfishes are less tolerant than many other fish, but there are many other fish that have a low tolerance too. Other catfish are quite tolerant to salt and some even require it, as they live as adults in brackish estuaries.

The general idea of adding salt (of any kind) to the tank is probably one of those propagated urban myths of the aquarium world. There was another thread about it on this forum during the weekend. The actual goodness/badness of it will depend very much on what fish you have, but unless it's specifically stated for that fish that they require salt, I wouldn't add any... [unless for medical purposes, and then for a specific illness that is known to be curable with salt, and only to fish that are actually affected].

I agree, some of the anticaking agents/additives can be very bad for fish, and I don't necessarily trust the labeling either. But I was using the term "table salt" loosely. Maybe I should have used "sodium chloride" instead... This to differentiate from say magnesium sulphate or potassium permanganate, which are also a salts (and not necessarily something you want to have in a fish-tank either).

And further apologies for the oversimplification on goldfish. I've got some sort of orange/white fantail myself [well, technically, it's fiance's, but I take care of the tank it's in...], and it's growing nicely, so I'm obviously not waving too much ammonia near it...

--
Mats

I happened on some info about Hillstream Loaches (was actually looking for something else, but I saw it pop up, so...), and it seems like they will potentially grow to 9cm Length...

--
Mats

Thanks MatsP. Here's a couple of photo's. Is he a Hillsteam Loach?

Yes, if I may...
Think it is a Pseudogastromyzon cheni by the looks of it.
Nice fish, likes company, never just 2, better 5 or more so that they can show their social behaviour. With just 2 you'll end up with 1....

MatsP wrote: Salt is a good medication on certain conditions (ich for example),
The general idea of adding salt (of any kind) to the tank is probably one of those propagated urban myths of the aquarium world.
I agree, some of the anticaking agents/additives can be very bad for fish,
And further apologies for the oversimplification on goldfish.

Fancy goldfish are the HARDEST fish I have ever tried to keep. True veterans of the fishkeeping campaign tell me they can keep anything but fancy goldfish. Respect and take your hat off to anyone who can keep fancy goldfish!

That said, the English seem to have better luck than a lot of us; that may be because of the harder water. Not only do GF prefer harder water, it is more stable. I have a suspicion that significant pH swings and maybe osmotic effects are responsible for a lot of "floating" and "flipover" disease in fancy GF.

Salt is good for costia, flukes, hydra, epistylis among other things in GF, at least. As an ich treatment, I have heard of some success, but there are better remedies for Ich.

The anti-caking is largely a non-issue, the stuff ppl worry aobut is seldom used anymore (plenty been said about
THAT on hte net) but when in doubt, use aquarium salt or Kosher salt for peace of mind. Reach your theraputic concentration by weight, not volume as the size of the salt grain makes a big difference in concentration. If one is dosing for resistant flukes or costia and going into very high doeses, use a hygrometer and raise salt level over several days. ADD AIR.

In catfish, I have never used salt and am afraid to, as sensitivies differ.

Sorry, but I do get on my goldfish horse now and then and this IS Speak Easy.

troi