Can someone ID the disease?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Here are the pics of my three gars as of 5 days ago http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =2&t=36500. Since then, little-by-little they started to develop dark exterior areas primarily on the underside of their snouts and heads... namely the two of them - the gator gar Baggett (the darker one) and the FL gar Big Spotty. It is most obvious on the latter. Almost looks like mold.

Does any one have a guess what this might be and how to treat it?

This looks a very different problem from the one they have been quarantined for (described in the link above). I am tempted to just give them a short strong salt bath or hydrogen peroxide wipe and let them back into their pond so I can start feeding them and let them gain their strength. They have not eaten in 2 weeks. I can't feed them in this tiny 120 gal.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Big Spotty's belly: it is starting to appear there too...

[Viktor Jarikov]

Baggett: harder to see but the same problem. Compare with the pics in the link.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Here is French. Still looking good but it appears the problem may be starting there too.

[naturalart]

Don't know what it is, but I've seen something similar in some columbian tetras I had once. They would get black spots random all over the body. Couldn't figure out how to treat them. Some individuals hung on for a long time with this disposition. Again, don't know if this is what you have. Hope someone with more knowledge will respond. Have you called the closest public aquarium?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Thanks, Naturalart. Do I understand your case correctly: all the tetras died from it, some sooner some later?

By calling an Aquarium, did you mean for a consultation? I have not open for business yet. Nobody knows really if and when I will. Hence, I doubt they will answer layman-hobbyist questions about deceases.

Yesterday, I added a combination of nitrofurazone and furazolidone - a typical gram-positive antibiotic. By night, the condition cleared 75% and I got hopeful. This morning it is back to what it was. Strange.

[donpetty]

Hi Viktor,
I have followed your posts and find your larger fish fascinating,So with that in mind
I am simply offing a suggestion and not anything I know to be fact or that I have any real pharmacological experience in fish diseases other than the things I have solved in my own tanks. As far as black spot disease in tetras; I have observed a “black” mouth condition and black spot disease that attacks tetras, especially Black Skirts which eventually kills them, I do not know of a treatment and if this is bacterial or caused by a parasite. Others here may know. But, let me offer another suggestion and maybe this you will discount immediately. If this spotted condition started after being placed in a (small) 120 gallon aquarium; which as you have pointed out is much smaller than the fishes normal quarters, could these colors be stress colors or a stress pattern and not an actual disease? Might these patterns be related to being in such close quarters for such large predatory fishes? I know you are treating them per your posts for a parasite infection and that they must spend time in treatment before returning to the display pond. But, could the close quarters be causing some stress coloration? No scientific basis for this but a possibility?

Don

[Viktor Jarikov]

Hey Don! Thanks much for your input and for the info on tetras. Yeah, I considered the stress but they have been in the 120 gal for 10 days now and have been behaving quite relaxed. You can tell when the fish is stressed. Most usually, its colors pale; it's nervous, skittish. They are nothing like that.

The other guess involved white "gravel", which is really ceramic cylinders = my filter. Unnatural white bottom is known to cause color adjustments in fish. But it just does not look like a color change. It is uneven and just looks so much like mold.

A second dose of the furan-based antibiotic combo didn't do a squat. So, I changed all the water and I am testing Rid-Ich right now (Malachite Green plus formaldehyde).

Also, they appear to start showing the signs of the external parasites for which they have been quarantined for (this one had cleared right away after a 24-h salt bath).

Their pond has not cycled yet. So I am left to playing with meds. If Rid-Ich does not work, next I will try Acriflavin MS (pretty much Acridine Yellow dye).

[donpetty]

Hi Viktor,
I am sorry to hear that the parasites have returned, I know so little about
Prehistoric-monster fishes. A monster to me is a 3" Peru black Cory...

My experiences with parasitic infections are all based on imported Corydoras.
I found this site helpful and you may already be aware of it, but here is a link
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com ... tion3.html
With the Cories, a common medication is Praziquantel.
The link I have provided may offer some other good reference information as well, for example the article
on "natural" medications such as the ones made from Tea tree and malalucia were very helpful.
Have a great day!
Don

[Viktor Jarikov]

Don, it's a wonderful reference guide at one's fingertips. Excellent! Thanks much. I skimmed through and will read many times over much more carefully.

As for the gars, neither Rid-ich nor Acriflavine MS have had any apparent effect. So, it's another salt bath and back in the pond tomorrow.

[donpetty]

Hi Viktor,
one more idea,
A closer resource for you might be the EDIS University of Florida IFAS extension.
There are excellent articles on Parasitology; here is a link http://search.ifas.ufl.edu/search?site= ... A&x=13&y=8
There is an article there on treating fish using Potassium Permanganate. I work in a radionuclide laboratory in Eastern Washington (City Where the atomic bomb was made), I use this stuff in the lab to make tritium free water by distillation. Jungle/Tetra brand sells this in a dilute form, but the powder is best. The article gives uses for Potassium Permanganate for parasite removal for larger fish and pond use. The article is FA23, can be found at the web seach from IFAS. Can be used as short bath or in tank then water change and repeat if needed.
Hope this also helps your quest!
Take care!

Don

[Viktor Jarikov]

Are you a fellow (inorganic) chemist? I am a physical organic chemist. Well... had been for 20 years.

Wow, what another great compendium, much more serious and detailed! Thanks so much again, Don. I will start reading that too. Great stuff. Looked up a few articles and I am quite impressed - a must read for me definitely.

I've used KMnO4 before for my koi spot-treatments and baths and my koi pond and it was actually the stuff I wiped out the gar pond with (took half a pound til water stayed purple - was turning brown (MnO2 color) almost instantly!). I bought 5 lb from a septic-systems store 5 years ago. Thanks for bringing it onto my mind: I actually gave my gars a 30 min bath in 10 ppm KMnO4 instead of half a day in 5% salt (because I'd already tried the salt bath twice before and so far only with temporary success).

The gars are back in the pond. Will see tomorrow if they live through all this abuse and maybe there is some appetite. Poor guys had not eaten for a month, then were fed for 3 days, and then another 2 weeks of fasting.

[donpetty]

Hi Viktor,
Rad Chem actually.
Radiums, tritium, Unat's etc.
At this point in life; I've been a project manager and a tech for years
I am in procurement now which I enjoy, after receipt of said chemicals; I produce various molarities
for the client projects, I work for a large production facility with labs across the US.
TestAmerica, most of the labs they operate are not Rad. I believe that Richland, WA and
St. Louis, MO are the only Rad labs operated by TestAmerica in the US.
Would like to work more with my aquariums actually, open a shop or breed fulltime or
something other than 8M HNO3~
Again, Glad to hear the monsters are back in the pond!
Take care,

Don