Help with Ich outbreak

[catfishchaos]

Hello Everyone

I recently acquired 6

Centromochlus perugiae

and added them to my 55 gallon Amazon tank and unfortunately they developed pretty severe ich. I purchased API general cure and started treatment and know 4 days into it and just adding the second dose last night all the other fish in the tank have ich.

Tank: Fluval 55 gallon LED kit
Lighting: Fluval LED
Heating: Fluval M series (150 watt)
Temp: 81 F
PH: 5.7-6.5
Filtraion: Fluval 306 Canister filter
Aeration: Marina air pump rated for 50 gallons diffused through two Red sea wooden air blocks on opposite sides of tank.
Decor: Lots of Malaysian drift wood, Echindorus sp scattered through out and recently added some Brazilian penny wort. 12 pleco caves in total from Plecocaves.com
Misc: UV sterilizer Green killing machine
Residents:

Peckoltia compta

: 7

Panaqolus maccus

: 3

Centromochlus perugiae

: 6

Hyphessobrycon pulchripinnis

: 7

Thayeria boehlkei

: 9-10

Prionobrama filigera

: 4

Action Taken if any: Started treatment of API general cure after recommendation from here. 5 packets (1 for each 10 gallons) added on monday night then added 5 more packets 48 hours later as package describes.

Problem: Ich has spread to all tank residents despite treatment

Fatalities: None would like to keep it that way

Available Meds (brands): API (any), Tetra, Ich x

Irrelevant urgency: Moving into boarding school residence soon and will only see tank once a week starting monday (feeding arrangements have been made..)

Big read I know but its a big problem and I really want to get these guys happy and healthy again before I move out for the winter. All help is greatly appreciated!

[pleconut]

Here in uk i buy a product called water life white spot velvet and fungus it works very quickly also just to add a note here as i was warned of this myself during an outbreak a while back someone asked me if what I was using also treated velvet as velvet can look like whitespot but can be more harmful if not treated so i would ask you this question myself but if you are certain it's whitespot is it at all possible there a reason for the rapid spread to all the fish despite treatment ie fish being more susceptible in terms of immunity or weakened can sometimes be caused by environmental factors if you cannot find a reason for this then persist with the treatment but if you can find a reason then correcting these in conjunction with treatment will be better. What filter media are you using at present. I often have problems with recently purchased fish.

[catfishchaos]

Nothing by the name Water life on this side of the pond to my knowledge but thanks for the tip! The Filter contains Biomax (rocks) 6 sponges and Peat granules.

I can't think of an external stressor They all seemed so happy and normal (in fact they still do) but now they are covered in white spots...

Here are some picks of it on different species

On the

Peckoltia compta

At least they are still hungry

Panaqolus maccus

Close up on the

Centromochlus perugiae

On misc Tetra sp



Tank itself

[pleconut]

Using a more specific targeted treatment for whitespot may help i dont know the exact composition of the treatment you are using or what percentage of it would target the whitespot if it's a general treatment i would say as whitespot is fairly common then it would treat it and also any other problems. As the fish are already badly affected to stop this treatment now wait 7 days and then start another is very likely to be more detrimental than continuing with the one you're using also time is a factor for you and the fish. Find out as much as you can about this treatment. Ive not used it to know enough about it How long is a full course of this treatment?

[catfishchaos]

5 days is the full treatment after that I am supposed to do a 25% water change (little bit smaller than what I usually do but I'll stick with what the package says...) I know @Atmichaels has worked with this exact cure, hopefully he can chime in

[bekateen]

I don't think a bigger water change (e.g. 50%) would be harmful; in fact it might be better. And make sure to gently agitate the surface layer of the gravel (or vacuum it) to remove ich parasites hiding there which can reinfect fish later.

I rarely do water changes as small as 25%, even when the fish are healthy. But then again, I don't know either - I always assumed that 25% was recommended as a big number (i.e., change 25% instead of just 10%), but maybe it's recommended to avoid the possible stress you might cause to already-weakened fish by performing a larger change like 50%.

Good luck, Eric

[pleconut]

I've checked on the api website they also do a product called super ick cure either liquid or powder the general cure does treat parasites ive read it does treat whitespot on some forums though info given with it on api website doesnt specify so and doesn't say it cannot be used on scale less fish. However the api super ick cure warns scale less fish are sensitive to it i guess this would possibly include your catfish the centromochlus perugiae as they appear quite delicate. But i have no personal experience at all with these hoping someone with more knowledge of the fish you have thanks Eric i think you own these and medicating will advise. Agree on a larger water change though as if necessary another course of treatment could possibly be started sooner but again someone may have some ideas.

[catfishchaos]

A coworker has reccomeded Noxich (i think thats what its called) it is a blue liquid and is sensitive to light so it might be hard on the plants but its easeir to replace plants then fish (in this case). I'll do a 25% water change today and tomorrow and then start the new medication and crank the heater up to 82-84 F

Anyother tips?

[pleconut]

Glad you seem to have found a resolution.

[bekateen]

Eric i think you own these and medicating will advise. Agree on a larger water change though as if necessary another course of treatment could possibly be started sooner but again someone may have some ideas.

Yes I do own these. But I haven't had to face the challenge of these guys getting sick yet, so I don't know how vulnerable they are to the stress of medication. And alas, knowing how to properly medicate the various kinds of catfishes is my weakness; I have very little experience or knowledge in this area. Like you Teresa, I hope that someone with more experience in regards to meds and Auchenipterids could help out here.

@catfishchaos, I know that you've already posted a question about your oil cats having ich in the thread entitled, "Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members?."

But did you run a search of that thread using the keyword "ich" or "ick?" There are lots of responses that come up as a result of such a search. Maybe you can find more advice that way.

Cheers, Eric

[catfishchaos]

Thought I would give you guys an update.

I have lost almost all of my tetras, I'm down to 1

Thayeria boehlkei

and 2

Prionobrama filigera

On the catfish front I have lost 3 of my

Centromochlus perugiae

but all of the Plecos are holding on for know. Last night was the second dose of Noxich and apparently it cures after 3 days, I'll be doing a 25% water change today and then dosing it once more and see where that leaves us. It looks like I'll be ordering more

Centromochlus perugiae

at the current rate but PROPERLY QUARANTINING THEM for a month at least. I'll probably add this to the worst screw ups thread later today...

[pleconut]

I'm really sorry to have heard this i have read it can happen to centromochlus perugiae as they really are sensitive to it. maybe if you get more get the others first.Q T is a good move. Also my fingers crossed the plecos recover.

[bekateen]

Yeah, that is sad news. Ich is really hard to treat sometimes. With sensitive fish I don't know how to treat it either. But even with relatively "easy-to-treat" fish, it's possible to screw up; you can read about that failure here: Re: Is there a way to "decontaminate" Ich-exposed plants?

There were no catfish in that tank, but everybody else suffered.

Better luck with the next batch,
Eric

[pleconut]

That's another tip ensure anything exposed is completely cleared of it.

[catfishchaos]

Lost a P. Compta and another Centromochlus today :'(

[pleconut]

Not an easy question to have to ask here under the circumstances but is the the whitespot on rest of fish clearing up or is it getting worse I'm thinking of maybe installing another uv may help to kill off ich parasites before they get onto the fish.

[catfishchaos]

Not an easy question to have to ask here under the circumstances but is the the whitespot on rest of fish clearing up or is it getting worse I'm thinking of maybe installing another uv may help to kill off ich parasites before they get onto the fish.

Seems to have frozen in place, not getting worse not getting better. Unfortunately the residents have been to stressed to eat and are waisting away irregardless of what I offer. I think its to late to really be able to save anyone in there. I am also out of outlets to plug another sterilizer into. I'll do a 25% water change today but I feel as though it will make little difference at this point.

[pleconut]

When is this course due of treatment due to finish

[catfishchaos]

General Update

I have lost 6 out of my 7

Peckoltia compta

, 2 of my 3

Panaqolus maccus

and 4 of my 6

Centromochlus perugiae

.

The remainders of each sp have yet to be found but they are most likely all dead. the tetras seem to be cleared of it but I will continue to treat the tank for a week. After that I'll probably take the remaining tetras back to the shop and grab 10 or so

Hemigrammus erythrozonus

then another 10 or so a week after and then start looking for catfish again. I will be ordering more

Centromochlus perugiae

from the same source but they will be quarantined properly for at least a month.

I'll start a new thread soon talking about replacement options for pleco sp. I really only have on goal and that is to make exotic captive bred catfish more obtainable in Canada. I might just go for another group of

Peckoltia compta

but

Hypancistrus sp(l201)

might also be an option.

[bekateen]

That's a total bummer. Sorry, man.

Eric

[pleconut]

I'm referring to you mentioning several times about reordering centromochlus perugiae are these ordered say online and then sent to you or do you go and collect yourself if not only order 2 at a time. As they are really susceptible to whitespot. And a longer journey could bring about the stresses that can leave them vulnerable. If there is an LFS or something more local to you just a thought.Also to mention the ick parasite can live as if in a dormant state in a fish tank then when we add a fish under stress you probably know this anyway but wanted to remind you there are many factors at play here so that you can bounce back quickly still its not a nice thing to occur. On its travels from where it was caught and shipped via wholesalers then LFS and then into our tanks after staying in various crowded holding tanks with other fish going through the same thing with differing water parameters and feeding regimes each time and then being vulnerable succumbing to the dormant or low level of ich parasites So quarantining will also help them recover from this journey as well as preventing problems in the main tank. Hope you can get it all up and running again soon.

[TwoTankAmin]

For all those who might be interested, here is a 2011 review paper published in 2012 about more potential ich treatments than all of us combined knew existed. It includes many that were not effective. It is one of the more comprehensive treatments of this subject I have run across.

An assessment of the use of drug and non-drug interventions in the treatment of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis Fouquet, 1876,a protozoan parasite of freshwater fish
PICÓN-CAMACHO, S M; MARCOS-LOPEZ, M; BRON, J E; SHINN, A P. Parasitology139.2 (Feb 2012): 149-90
http://dspace.stir.ac.uk/bitstream/1893 ... review.pdf