IBAMA at L-numbers event

[husky_jim]

Hello to all.

Just on Hannover's airport.

One thing that i want to add is that (correct me if wrong) that some genuses will be permited entirely e.g. Ancistrus...

Let's wait and see the list.As of P.Leopardus it is in the possitive list already so nothing to discuss about.

Henrique told that this will clear up till the end of the month....

[MatsP]

I had dinner with Henrique yesterday, and it's clear that this list has been in the works for a long time, and IBAMA provided it to the Ministry of Fisheries last year. Another talk at the L-number days was by a German PhD student that studied in Brazil, and he pretty much said that if Germany is good at Buereaucratic forms and having rules about anything and everything, then Brazil are the EXPERTS at making up rules, regulations, forms and other such things. Everything in Brazil is complicated, takes a lot of time, and just plain difficult.

The other new part with this list is that it's "future proof". With the old list, if species "Alpha beta" was on the list, and it became renamed to "Gamma beta" because some scientist decided that "Gamma is a better match for it's placement", then this would mean that the species (technically speaking) could not be exported. With the new list, any "move", "merge" or "split" means that if the fish was allowed before the change, it's still allowed after. So for example when the Corydoras gets shuffled around into 8-9 genera in the next few years, the list is still OK for these "new" names of the species.

The other key aspect is that there is a process for adding new species to the list via an official "wish-list". However, ONLY scientifically described species are allowed to be added. Fishing organizations can supply new species to scientists and when the description is published, there is the possibility to add the fish to the list. I'm sure that's not going to happen VERY often - but these changes are all good things.

And for anyone wanting H. zebra, if anything, the indications is that it will end up on CITES as "endangered" (which will make it illegal to ship any wild fish to/from ANY country, rather than just Brazil). So look after the ones we have in the hobby, and leave the ones in the wild, please!

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Mats

[CanadaPleco]

I hope it goes thru soon, I really would like some more adult sized L24's. Sure is hard finding a nice big female.

[Cristoffer Forssander]

So all these L numbers have been scientifically described species?
Is this the only reason? That these species like L82 hasn’t been described and then putted on the new list? Because of the description of the genera and species?
If I remember right, L heterodon is not on any list at all! It means that this species is endangered? It is a described species and should be fairly productive as in captivity.

To sum my question: What measurement do IBAMA use when decide witch species to add? Everything can not have to do with the descriptions, right?

[MatsP]

No, all the L-numbers listed above are undescribed species. But to ADD further new species to the list, they need to be described.

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Mats

[Cristoffer Forssander]

But how did they do the selection? Way these species and not others?

Cristoffer

[MatsP]

But how did they do the selection? Way these species and not others?

Cristoffer

Henrique (who produced the list) did say that he knows exactly why everything is or isn't on the list. But I'm afraid I can't really say - I think it's mainly "they can be sustainably collected".

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Mats

[Simon86]

I've talked to Henrique and he told me they got like seven (I don't remember if it's really seven) aspects which they take care off for each species. Each point they rate from 1 - 10. Between 1 - 4 that species past for that point, 5 - 7 they take a closer look and if the species is between 8 - 10 for a single point it's not on the positiv list. And it sounds like they got that reported for each species

Cheers Simon

[Yann]

Hi!!

Yes correct...so it means intense field survey with Ichtyologs.
Basically, geographical distribution, occurence, size, human pressure (direct and indirect)are parameters taken into account.

Lets say a fish with a 3m size, not commonly found, with a small distribution facing intense pressure by the food market but also by human activities like industries where it is, is likely to be forbidden to export...

If other fish are not allowed yet doesn't mean they will not in the future, it could simply means they don't have enough data yet

Cheers
Yann

[SilverDub]

So if a CITES protected species is placed directly in the line of extinction by a certain dam(n) project will this be enough to stop the dam?

[racoll]

So if a CITES protected species is placed directly in the line of extinction by a certain dam(n) project will this be enough to stop the dam?

No. CITES is about trade.

The acronym stands for: Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora.