Frozen vegetables for clown plecos?

[bekateen]

Hi All,

I am considering the option of offering my

Panaqolus maccus

chopped frozen vegetables as a supplement to the spirulina tablets and fresh zucchini and cucumber that they already get.

I searched through the forums for "frozen vegetables" and "frozen veggies," but almost every post that came up from the search used the frozen in reference to frozen meaty foods (blood worms or shrimp) rather than frozen vegetables.

I did find a couple of references to frozen peas. Do clown plecos like frozen peas? What about frozen carrots? My local grocery stores sell small bags of frozen mixes of peas and chopped (about 5 x 5 x 5 mm cubes) carrots. If this is a desirable food choice, it would be very convenient to simply dispense a few pieces at a time into the aquarium. Given the small size of the peas and carrot pieces, it seems like I could give out less food at a time and have less waste. By contrast, when I feed them fresh zucchini or cucumber, even a small slice, they only eat out the center of the squash and leave the rind behind, wasting a lot of food. The other problem is that my clown plecos don't appear to eat the cucumber seeds, so these get dispersed into the tank and create more pollution.

Also, going back to the frozen worms option, do clown plecos like live Tubifex worms? I keep a thriving population of the worms in the gravel of the tank, and the worms do stick up out of the gravel a short distance (few mm), but I'm not sure how effective the clown plecos are at getting to the worms, since the plecos don't dig in the substrate like Corys do.

Thanks for the help. Cheers, Eric

[dpm1]

With very few exceptions all my fish, vegetarian or omnivores (and of course meaty types) have ignore veg, frozen, blanched or fresh.

Peas, lettuce, cabbage, carrot, courgette...almost untouched. Even those that did get nibbled often seemed like a one off as the next attempt failed and was removed uneaten.

Frozen 'meaty' food is another matter tho and everyone likes in at some point. I've even spotted devote vegetarians seeking the odd nibble of bloodworm!

I wouldn't worry about the clowns having trouble digging for food. My BN and 2 Peckoltia have been known to shift hell and earth (and sand and gravel) at times. Wether it was for food or just to give me a heart attack after lights out I may never know, but they sure can shift the dirt if needed.

[Shane]

Eric,
Your P. maccus only need wood. My breeding group produces fry non stop. They eat the driftwood and bamboo in the tank. 1-2 times per week I drop in a few earthworm sticks or algae wafers, but this probably isn't necessary. I think it is more for me than the fish. The fry are raised in the parent's tank on the same diet.
-Shane

[jp11biod]

Shane-- do you provide a specific varieties of wood or would anything work?

[Shane]

Just random wood. Some pieces I grabbed from the Rio Magdalena, some I picked up in the Orinoco, and even some Oak out of the backyard. Bamboo comes from the backyard as well.

Filtration is an Emperor 400 and two powerheads (400 gph and 200 gph) attached to sponge filters. So close to 1,000 gph turnover in a 40 gallon tank. They do not need that much turnover however. The group bred for two years in a 20 long with only a 200 gph powerhead attached to a sponge filter. Temp wise they will spawn reliably between 76F and 80F.

Water changes (in both set ups) were/are 60% every Sunday. Bottom 40 is what they breed in now.

-Shane

[bekateen]

Hi All,

Thanks for the useful information. Shane, what about Manzanita wood (either as food or in general as decoration in a planted tank). And how old/aged/dry does the wood need to be? My habit is to use only wood that is essentially dry as can be and usually sun bleached of most of its color (about as dry as wood used for a fire).

Thanks, Eric

[Shane]

I have actually never tried manzanita, but the next time I visit my family in NORCAL (Mariposa County) I plan to collect a bunch of it as it looks great in a tank.
-Shane

[bekateen]

I have actually never tried manzanita, but the next time I visit my family in NORCAL (Mariposa County) I plan to collect a bunch of it as it looks great in a tank.
-Shane

We have a family home near Sonora, California, and our property is covered with old Manzanita trees. I haven't gathered any branches yet, but I will this Spring!

[Richard B]

i don't know if it's different but i had some manzanita wood when it was first marketed over here & it was so hard, large panaques barely scratched it

[bekateen]

Thanks, Richard.

[jodilynn]

My old clown pleco, "Crabby", ate sweet potatoes. I am not sure what specific strain my new clown "Courtney" is but she eats frozen peas, zucchini and sweet potato too.

And yes, driftwood. Not great algae cleaners though!

[bekateen]

Thanks Jodilynn.

[zn30]

My Clowns eat pumpkin as well sometimes frozen peas and the peel from Zucchini not to wrapped in the flesh though. Have drift wood of differing types which they have chewed through. Will try bamboo from my backyard as suggested in this post, thanks

[bekateen]

My old clown pleco, "Crabby", ate sweet potatoes. I am not sure what specific strain my new clown "Courtney" is but she eats frozen peas, zucchini and sweet potato too.

Primarily, I'm relying on the driftwood for my clown pleco food, and I'm still giving them an occasional algae wafer (about once/week). Lately I've been feeding my albino BNs raw peeled sweet potatoes, so on a whim this week I placed a thin (1/4 inch) slice of raw peeled sweet potato in with my clown plecos, and they seem to like it too.

[catfishchaos]

My group of four P.maccuss (eat a steady diet of Malaysian driftwood with a monthly treat like zucchini and sweet potato (that they demolish) and give them some prepared frozen veggie diet (Emerald Entree) but they happily accept bloodworms and carnivore pellets i give to my L134 (they share the tank, i do not give it to them specifically but I have observed all my clown plecos happily munching on them).

never heard of the bamboo but it makes sense, I'll be sure to grow some for them!

[bekateen]

Everybody, thanks for the advice.

Currently I have a few

Apistogramma agassizii

in with the clown plecos, but this is only temporary. Between the two species, I'm throwing several different types of food - daily servings of Aqueon flakes (for the cichlids), and once or twice a week servings of live Tubifex worms, API algae eater wafers, and fresh sweet potato. Plus the clown plecos have all the wood they can eat, since the tank is decorated with 4 or 5 pieces of driftwood. So I think my plecos are okay, as far as food is concerned; I don't see any reason to try the frozen peas and carrots right now.

Changing the subject a little, going back to breeding clown plecos: Based in the sexing identifications obtained at this website, I've got 2 males and one female in a 15 gallon tank. The tanks has driftwood, some slate rock, 3 plastic PVC pipe "caves" (4-5" long, 1" diameter), and a small-grain gravel substrate with a few plants. The water is relatively soft (but I've never measured it), with pH~6.8, temp ~78F.

Is this a sufficient setup for the clowns to spawn? On a number of occasions, I've found the males inside the PVC caves, but I've never seen the female in any. However, a lot of times I find the Apistogramma hiding in the tubes overnight, which is obviously not good for the clown plecos; I don't want the cichlids chasing the plecos out of the tubes, so I'm going to remove the Apistogramma soon and replace them with six lemon tetras.

Is my combination of 2 males and 1 female good or bad? Do I need more females? Fewer males? Also, @Shane, I see that your tank has a lot of spawning caves. Are my three caves sufficient for my three plecos, or do I need more caves?

Thanks again for the help. Cheers, Eric

[Shane]

Eric,
Some suggestions:
1) As you noted, remove the cichlids. That high protein diet is too much for Panaque. You will end up with bloat issues. I would not add tetras. Panaque do not need feeders (cichlids) or dithers (tetras)
2) Remove the substrate. Too hard to keep a Panaque tank with a substrate clean.
3) Add a background to the tank. Even better cover the back and sides.
4) Caves need to be closed at one end. Bamboo is best, but clay works. I have never spawned Panaque in PVC (although I have spawned many other plecos in PVC). Recommend 2-3 caves per fish of varying sizes, materials and length. Let them choose.
-Shane

[bekateen]

Okay! Thanks. FYI, the PVC pipes are closed at one end by PVC caps. Even so, I'll add more caves, of different types/materials.

By the way, one thing that concerned me about PVC pipes I'm using was the white color - I wondered if perhaps the shiny white material reflected too much light deeper into the caves, perhaps scaring the fish. If so, this might mean black- or dark-walled caves are a better choice.

Cheers, Eric

[Shane]

Honestly never tried white. I have always used black.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/spe ... ies_id=793

-Shane

[bekateen]

I didn't want to use white material. I read somewhere that many plecos like to spawn in caves that are just barely big enough to fit in. So I went to three local hardware stores and looked at their plastic pipes. The black pipes were 1.5" diameter or larger. The only 1" diameter pipe they sold was white. Even though these diameters sound very similar, when you put them side-by-side, the 1.5" pipe looked huge, relative to the size of my clown plecos. So I bought the white pipes.

That's okay. As I said before, I'll buy more caves of different sizes and materials, and then we'll see what happens.

P.S., I use the same white 1" diameter PVC pipes, cut about 4" long and with one end capped, as caves for my Apistogramma in my other tank, and the Apistogramma love to spawn in the white PVC.

Cheers, Eric

[jodilynn]

OH I also give my plecos (clown, bristlenose, spotted rubbermouth) melon, watermelon seems to disintegrate a bit fast but they LOVE honeydew and cantaloupe.

[bekateen]

Okay, thanks for the idea.

[bekateen]

Update:

Hi, All. In addition to the current driftwood I have, I'm adding more caves and varieties of wood to my clown pleco tank (I put my first dried Manzanita branches in. Manzanita branches look really nice with their twisty shapes ). In my other tanks I've used halved coconut shells before, and I've seen my clown plecos feeding on the outer husk of the coconut shell until the hairy outer layer is almost entirely gone and the surface is smooth.

Quoting from another thread:

...Can i also feed him coconut flesh?...

After searching the PC forums for more on coconut shells, I found this 12-year old thread by @Kostas (quoted above), and it got me thinking about coconut flesh as a food for plecos. The question didn't get answered specifically in that old thread, but I'm imagining that if I were to try this, I would still need to separate the coconut flesh from the shell, because otherwise there is probably too much flesh inside the coconut to be eaten quickly, and it would start to rot before it can be all eaten.

Have any of you ever tried feeding your plecos coconut flesh? If so, how did you do it and what was the result?

Thanks. Cheers, Eric

EDIT: Here's a photo of how my breeding tank appears after I made the changes described above. In addition to the extra wood and reduced amount of gravel, there is black "construction paper" covering the back, the sides, and half the front for increased privacy for the fish (this makes viewing the fish almost impossible, LOL; I had to remove the front cover for picture taking):

[Kostas]

Hello,

I know I am quite a bit late but I just saw the notification. I did feed coconut and Panaque liked it a lot. It lasts pretty well in the aquarium with Panaque feeding on it as they eat the piece all around and don't let it rot. I usually added a 4x2x1cm piece and lasted 3-4 days. By then, there was nothing left to remove

[bekateen]

Thanks, Kostas. Don't worry about being late.

Cheers, Eric

[TwoTankAmin]

I cannot say it applies to clowns, but my first bristlenose spawned in white PVC caves. This lasted until they got too big to fit in a 1 inch diameter cave. I discovered this when I found the egg mass out of the cave against the front glass in the middle of the tank. By then I had discovered the "wonders" of buying caves online and branched out into clay and slate.

If one wishes to make their own slate caves I would suggest using tank safe epoxy and not silicone to glue them together. Over time (a couple of years) silicone will start to let go when used on rock, slate, terra cotta etc.

Re frozen veggies- I used to buy fresh zuchini and slice it up. I then used waxed paper to lay out slices and then fold over the paper and add another layer of slices. I would freeze them and then, when I needed to feed a few, I would defrost them in the microwave which also helped "par-boil" them so they sank on their own. Now I only keep Hyancistrus, so its mostly meaty foods plus some veggie or spirulina sticks now and then. Another thing I like is the Hikari Brine Shrimp gut loaded with spirulina.

[bekateen]

Thanks TTA. Cheers, Eric

[MarlonnekeW]

I'm not sure if this is available everywhere or if it's a typical Dutch/European vegetable, but my Ancistrus and P. maccus love Brussels sprout. I put them in boiling water for about 5-10 minutes. After they cooled off I give a few of them to my fish (app. 1 per fish) and I put the rest of them in the freezer. When I put them in the aquarium (I use saté skewers to keep them from floating) my fish literally come rushing towards them and within seconds all the sprouts are 'occupied'. Very much fun to watch.

[bekateen]

I've never given much thought to "leafy" veggies. Interesting. Thank you. How much of a single Brussels sprout will be consumed? How much gets thrown away?

[MarlonnekeW]

I'm not quite sure, because my Ancistrus sp4 and Ancistrus claro are in the same aquarium and they get three sprouts, so I don't exactly know who eats what. The last time, after about 24 hours, one sprout was completely gone and of the other two about 1/2 or 1/3 was left. My P. maccus are eating not as much as my Ancistrus, but they haven't been in my aquarium long, so they are still adapting to their new surroundings and are not that interested in food yet. But still, one of their sprouts was also almost completely gone after 24 hours.