Feeding my Otocinclus

All posts regarding the care and breeding of these catfishes from South America.
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spicy fox
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Feeding my Otocinclus

Post by spicy fox »

Heyo, so on my birthday maybe about 2 months ago, I got a fish tank. I set it up and let it cycle about a week, and then I got my fish. (2 of them died from getting stuck in a plant, but I removed the plant and bought more fish of the same kind.) I have an otocinclus catfish in there, and when I first got him he seemed pretty active and swam around. Ever since he discovered the cave, all he does is sit in there and I'm getting a bit worried. When I pulled the cave out just to check on him last night, he seemed pretty skinny. I'm wondering what I can do to draw him out of there, and to get him to eat? I read about giving them cucumber and all of that. Any suggestions to get him active and going again? :D My tank is a five gallon, by the way. I have 5 neon tetras and 3 baby mollies that are starting to get bigger. I might return the mollies back to the person I got them from once they get too big, but right now they absolutely love their tank and they're buddies with the neons. Also, please don't bombard me with, "Your tank is too small, buy a new one!" because I do not have the money for that.
One last thing, if I do end up returning my mollies, do you think a female betta will do good with the neons? I've heard of people putting them together and everything worked fine. I've been think about it for a while. I'd be absolutely heart-broken while giving my mollies back though, because they were my first fish I put in there and I absolutely adore them. :(( I love when they swim up to me when I walk over there to feed them, haha. They're absolute pigs! They're also a bit spoiled too; they always think they're getting food if you walk up to the tank. :d
torusle
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Re: Feeding my Otocinclus

Post by torusle »

Since none else is answering:

Otocinclus catfish don't like stress, so if your cat is currently not felling well pulling him out his hide-out is exactly the thing not to do. You just make things worse, much worse.

Regarding food, I've been told they like mashed peas and some of them don't like care about dried food at all. I'd drop him a mashed pea near to his cave and just let him decide if he wants to eat or not.

You've mentioned that you have set-up your tank for just a week without fish: That's probably not enough. Please buy a water quality test and learn what the different water indicators mean. If you see a problem arising, do a small water change. If you find out you have a big problem, then make a huge water change. And otherwise keep your hands out of the tank and let nature do it's thing.

Posting a picture of your fish along with water values will likely help to get some advice as well.
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Re: Feeding my Otocinclus

Post by catfishchaos »

Sometimes if you get e reply within the day your pretty luck ;)

I only keep one in a 6 gallon for algae control.... I've never actually had to feed him! The tank gets so much algae of all different types he always has a full belly. However with most algae eaters your supposed to wait until the tank is very mature. For my tanks they are almost always the last fish added to the tank. I bought some Hikari algae wafers which my other fish adore (including some other plecos that are NOT in the 6 gallon) and he has never touched them. I haven't offered any zucchini but I'm sure he would nibble on it at the very least, I have only seen videos of the eating zucchini but they always look happy.

Pictures of your tank and the water test data would help but there are common reasons any fish (Oto's included) stay in hiding and can usually be reduced to the following reasons.

Lighting and brightness: Over powered LEDS? A couple T5s? No big deal to us but secretive and susceptible little fish prefer dimmer lighting which can be achieved with a well planted tank and plenty of cover and or changing out the light fixture (Oto's LOVE live plants and playing/feeding on and around them so I would go with the first option).

Bullies: It happens, aren't a spitting image of a tough guy but do resemble that quiet little nerd that anyone can pick on. Watch the other fish and how they interact with him. I'm not trying to imply your fish are mean or evil but a curious molly is all it takes to scare an from my experiences ( is probably scared of its own shadow to be honest.

Water quality/Illness/Tank maturity: less likely but not to be ignored. the tank sounds pretty new and don't like new, or change... stable and mature tanks have always been the best option for them and if put in tank where the water is suboptimal can really stress them out. Fish often hide when ill (not that all fish that do so are ill, catfish are pretty cryptic but if the behaviour changes it can be an indicator. It could also just mean your tank didn't have enough algae (back to the maturity) and he has simply run out of food which is a pretty good reason to hide especially if its making him weaker an in its mind more vulnerable to predation.

Traffic and noise: Mollies more so than neons but both can still create a lot of movement in a tank and that can be scary for the little sucker ( ;) ) not to mention human traffic. If the tank is in a hallway or room that you frequent and move around in he could just be trying to hide from the massive monkey that for some reason hasn't eaten him yet. Noise pollution is not a silent killer by any means but vibrations ( bass in particular but all noise) is not as pleasant underwater. Maybe you like to crank up your music or turn up the volume on an action movie, maybe the filter is rattling against the side of the tank or maybe you simply live in a city and have the lovely sounds of rush hour. Try to limit noise where you can (again rush hours is an example of something out of your control) and see if this changes anything.

Hopefully something in here helps!
I can stop keeping catfish whenever I want. I just don't think I'll ever want to do that...
spicy fox
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Re: Feeding my Otocinclus

Post by spicy fox »

torusle wrote:Otocinclus catfish don't like stress, so if your cat is currently not felling well pulling him out his hide-out is exactly the thing not to do. You just make things worse, much worse.
I rarely ever pull him out. I mainly just do it if I feel that it's necessary and he isn't doing well and I should check up on him so that he isn't dead.
catfishchaos wrote:Water quality/Illness/Tank maturity: less likely but not to be ignored. the tank sounds pretty new and Otocinclus vittatus don't like new, or change... stable and mature tanks have always been the best option for them and if put in tank where the water is suboptimal can really stress them out. Fish often hide when ill (not that all fish that do so are ill, catfish are pretty cryptic but if the behaviour changes it can be an indicator. It could also just mean your tank didn't have enough algae (back to the maturity) and he has simply run out of food which is a pretty good reason to hide especially if its making him weaker an in its mind more vulnerable to predation.
When I first brought him home, he really loved the place and showed no signs of illness or stress. Also, I didn't get him right away like my mollies. I got him a bit after, the same time I got my neons. He loved exploring, and when he eventually explored into the cave he fell in love with the place.

Also, I put in a thick slice of cucumber outside of the cave and I'm hoping he'll get to it sometime.
catfishchaos wrote:Mollies more so than neons but both can still create a lot of movement in a tank and that can be scary for the little sucker ( ;) ) not to mention human traffic. If the tank is in a hallway or room that you frequent and move around in he could just be trying to hide from the massive monkey that for some reason hasn't eaten him yet. Noise pollution is not a silent killer by any means but vibrations ( bass in particular but all noise) is not as pleasant underwater. Maybe you like to crank up your music or turn up the volume on an action movie, maybe the filter is rattling against the side of the tank or maybe you simply live in a city and have the lovely sounds of rush hour. Try to limit noise where you can (again rush hours is an example of something out of your control) and see if this changes anything.


My tank is currently in the corner of my room on the side I don't really go to much, except for feeding them or maybe getting something over there. As for vibrations, he's VERY sensitive to that. I've noticed that when I walk over to the tank when he's out, he'll swim crazily even though I barely shook the floor. So yeah, he's pretty much afraid of his own shadow. :d
The mollies and neons never really bother him with their movement. My mollies darted around a lot when I first got them but now they're pretty chill. As for my neons, they're chill too. All of them usually stick together or near eachother. They only ever swim around crazily if they see me or someone else over by the tank, since they want their food. :D
Also, I live in a pretty small town, so no rush hour or anything like that. However, my room IS downstairs, with the living room and kitchen upstairs (weird, right?) and you can hear pretty much EVERYTHING going on in my house from my room. People walking around upstairs causes some commotion sometimes.

As for the lighting of my tank, my fish don't really seem to mind the light, but I still try my best to make it not so bright on them. At night I usually dim it down so they can settle down to sleep and everything.

Pictures!:
Image
Image
:-BD
spicy fox
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Re: Feeding my Otocinclus

Post by spicy fox »

Nobody has responded in a long time. I'm getting a bit worried, and can't find any answers. Please help. :(
AdamTill
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Re: Feeding my Otocinclus

Post by AdamTill »

Flat out- you're being very cruel with all these in a 5 gallon. Get a SINGLE betta, and keep that. Your fish don't care that you can't get anything bigger, so stop overstocking the tank. Unless you're prepared to change 90% of the water every day (even that will push it when the mollies grow up), they're just going to die.

Next, mollies, bettas and neons/otos all come from DRAMATICALLY different areas with very different water conditions. I'd strongly suggest not mixing them, personally. Mollies need huge water changes to be really healthy, and generally harder water. Bettas are adaptable. Neons and otos both come from very SOFT water, and also appreciate very clean water.

On the oto front - first off, they're schooling fish, so lone otos will be more terrified than usual. Less than 6 is getting unfair to them, and being in alone is really unfair.

That said, I have 55 otos in my 75 gallon, and barely see them at all except for in the morning. They like to hang out at night on the branches of some thin pear tree I have in there, and will sometimes stay out if I catch them when the light comes on. They're happy enough to have produced (a) fry, but still run in fear at the sight of...well..anything.

You have next to no chance that the oto will outcompete the mollies for food (both have large veggie diet requirements), so you'll need to supplement something. Repashy Soilent Green in concert with zuchinni and bell pepper would be good.
spicy fox
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Re: Feeding my Otocinclus

Post by spicy fox »

AdamTill wrote:Flat out- you're being very cruel with all these in a 5 gallon. Get a SINGLE betta, and keep that. Your fish don't care that you can't get anything bigger, so stop overstocking the tank. Unless you're prepared to change 90% of the water every day (even that will push it when the mollies grow up), they're just going to die.
As I said, I may get rid of my mollies as they get bigger.
They are all doing extremely well. No problems. I change the water every now and then. They're all pretty healthy. I am not purposely "overstocking" it.
I already know that otos group; I'm just looking for a way to get him to be more comfortable until I can get more.
You're all giving me these options as if I can do it right away. I live in a bit of a remote area and pet stores are far away, and plus I hardly even have the time to go out.
I've had my fish for a long time and everything is working out fine. My mollies are actually doing a lot better than the ones in the tank that they originally came from; they have grown up quite healthy and have gotten bigger and the other baby mollies in the original tank are still small.
The tank is still quite fine for them. The neons and mollies love it. If there was a problem, I would know. My mollies seem a bit happier in my tank than their other. They actually have a lot of space for swimming; it's not really as bad as you think it is. I have heard of people having a HUGE supply in their 5 gallon tank. I am actually very conscious about this kind of stuff; I always make sure animals have the space they need and I never really liked how people kept bettas in those little bowls. :d
spicy fox
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Re: Feeding my Otocinclus

Post by spicy fox »

Also, sorry if I sounded a bit mean in my other post, but I didn't intend to.
Anyways, I changed my water the other day (which meant I had to take all of the fish out, yippee) and once I put them all back in my otocinclus seemed to be out a bit more. I put another cucumber slice in there but I'm not sure if he hasn't touched it. This morning he had been hanging out underneath the slice since there was a little bit of space under it that was just big enough for him to go under. I'm not sure where he is now though; I think he retreated back to his cave. I just saw him earlier hangin' out behind the cave close to where the cucumber slice is.
I also put an algae wafer in with the slice; it was underneath it and I was hoping that he would have discovered it when he was underneath the cucumber this morning, but alas, he didn't. I think he just sees the cucumber as a lovely decoration. :d
Another thing...
I'm pretty sure one of my mollies have gotten pregnant. Well, at least I know the gender of one of them! My mollies are still a bit young; haven't gotten any of their colours yet. The pregnant one is also the youngest of my three mollies.
When she gives birth, will I be able to give the fry off to a pet store? My tank cannot handle all of those fry! :d I've heard of people giving the fry off to pet stores, but I've also heard that most stores won't take them since mollies are easy to breed.
spicy fox
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Re: Feeding my Otocinclus

Post by spicy fox »

Okay guys, nevermind.
Found Jimmy (my otto) dead today whilst cleaning my tank. :/ I assume he died around yesterday.
However, I guess my pregnant molly got really stressed from being moved so I can clean, because she died within less than an hour.
I tried to save the babies by pushing on her stomach, but nothing happened so she couldn't have died from trying to give birth (as some mollies do).
I guess it's kind of good, in a way, that they died. :/ Jimmy doesn't have to suffer, and I don't have to deal with 50+ babies.
spicy fox
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Re: Feeding my Otocinclus

Post by spicy fox »

One last thing:
I'm not sure if my tank is actually a 5 gallon. It looks a bit big to be one. Close to 10 gallon, maybe? I'm not sure. However, it doesn't look too small for the mollies like most 5 gallon tanks do when they have mollies in it.
toy_car_uk
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Re: Feeding my Otocinclus

Post by toy_car_uk »

Otocinclus are not a fish for a beginner to the hobby. Reading your post I get the impression that you have yet to understand some of the basics of fish keeping. If you only take one thing away from your experience so far please let it be never to take home a fish with out understanding its requirements, and how you are going to provide for them. If you don't have the means to provide for it don't take it home.

When you say you let the tank cycle for a bout a week, just how did you let it cycle what checks and tests did you do to know how the cycle was going? Normally it takes much longer than this for a tank to cycle.
What kind of filtration do you have?
What are you water parameters?
Why are you taking the fish out the tank for a water change?
What water are you putting in the tank when doing a water change and how are you treating it?
I have not been a member of this forum long, but suspect much of the above is off topic and may be better discussed in a more general fish keeping forum than here.

You should also find out just what size you tank is, personal I think even 10 gallon is pushing it for a keeper with some experience to home Otos in.

Otos need to eat pretty much all the time, they will graze on algae and micro-organisms present in well established tanks, the more surfaces you provide from plants and the like the more hosts you will provide for the algae and micro-organisms to live off the less supplemental feeding you will need, but that is not to say you can get away with out feeding them. If Otos stop feeding for any length of time the bacteria in the gut of themdies, the Oto relies on this bacteria to break down food. With out the bacteria the Oto will slowly starve and die over a period of weeks. Sad to say the damage is often already done before you buy them from shipping to the fish store and how many fish stores keep them. In a well planted well established tank with other fish that rely on this bacteria, an Oto whos gut bacteria has died may recover by reseeding when it starts eating again. Even a well maintained heavily planted tank set up for 6 months is probably a bit to young for keeping Otos because of this.

They can be a shy and timid, if you want to see them more often providing the right environment it the way to go & Not forcing them out into the open or removing plants or caves.

Don't be dishearten with your experience so far, we have all made mistakes of one form or another along the way. Learn from this and listen the advice of more experience keepers, it is often invaluable.
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Re: Feeding my Otocinclus

Post by littletoot2016 »

Otos like old tanks that have been running for at leased 3 months or more. They do best in groups, and do like blanched (boiled) zucchini. But most otos are wild caught and are hard to keep happy, you didn't do anything wrong, the fish was not meant to live. If you post the L x W x H of the tank I'll give you what size of your tank. Don't be discouraged we ALL kill our share of fish. The first thing you need to do is buy some test kits. Ammonia and nitrite are all you need. I have a 5 gallon tank that I grow moss in. I have guppies and neons and cherry shrimp that take care of the algae in the tank. There are lots of kinds of fish you can keep together in a 5 gallon. How many depends on your filter and if you have a heater. Be real careful of what you buy, a lot of fish out there are junk and will dye no matter what you do. I have lots of hands on knowledge of fish ( not just my 5 gallon) and would be happy to give you advise, if you need help. Harry
AdamTill
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Re: Feeding my Otocinclus

Post by AdamTill »

Nitrate will easily kill otos, so saying you don't need a nitrate test kit isn't good advice, sorry.
littletoot2016
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Re: Feeding my Otocinclus

Post by littletoot2016 »

Nitrate is a product of nitrite and older water. If you do h2o changes on a regular basis I find nitrate not to be a problem. If you have high nitrates your not doing enough water changes. I try to keep things as simple as I can. If your trying to breed some types of fish or shrimp, then your right. You also need TDS, PH, GH and KH kits. If your a novice on a budget all you need is a nitrite and ammonia kit, regular water changes, and a good filter. Adam, when you got your first tank did you have any kits? Thanks for reading the post, Harry
AdamTill
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Re: Feeding my Otocinclus

Post by AdamTill »

Nitrate is produced by nitrobacter, not "older water". There's next to no bacterial content in tank water itself; if there was, then the 90%+ water changes that goldfish and discus owners do would wreck the cycle state of a tank.

Next, "regular basis" means something to you having had experience, but next to nothing to a newbie. They might think that doing 25% changes every two weeks is a "lot" of maintenance because the pet store said so, and that they should be fine. Even Aquadvisor says that the tank in this thread is 335% stocked however, recommends 60%+ changes weekly, and cautions this as at best a temporary setup. Add in the fact that newbies tend to overfeed like crazy, and you've got a waste factory.

The only way to really tell when to do changes is with a nitrate test kit (and/or TDS pen for advanced setups). A master test kit off Amazon is $26, and your two kits together are $14. If someone's budget can't handle $20, they're not ready to have live animals. People can always find money to buy more fish, however.

...and yes, I had a master test kit within weeks of getting my first setup.
littletoot2016
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Interests: keeping fish. and fishing (killing fish) though sometimes I kill both.

Re: Feeding my Otocinclus

Post by littletoot2016 »

Adam if you had a master kit within 2 weeks of setting up your new tank your a very quick learner. And yes your right the water does not hold the cycle, it's what it's filtered thru. You can take a seasoned filter put it on a new tank and in a few days have a tank that will hold most fish nicely. I'm just trying to simplify the nitrogen cycle for a beginner. Spicy Fox should not have been sold an Oto for a 5 gallon tank, but if Spicy is successful buying more suitable fish for the tank, then more money will become available to use in her hobby. After over 30 years as a retail store owner, fish wholesaler and transhipper, I've watched many eyes glaze over when you start talking about things like nitrobacter. you are lucky to live in a time when test kits are so good, at a reasonable price. When I started Lamont was the only good kits available. They cost between $50 and $80 each, that's when my house payment was $187! Needless to say there wasn't a lot of kits out there. My post is not geared to a hardcore fish keepers like you, I'm just trying to keep a newbie in the hobby, so they can enjoy fish like we do. Thanks for your comments, and best regards, Harry
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