Help with chosing plecos

[bravorauch]

Hello everybody,

I have a wish to own 5,6 different pleco groups witch i can have in a same tank. I would like that they are not bigger than 15 cm in full size. Today i have l333, soon i will buy l134. So since i do not know so much about mix breeding can someone helps me with 4 more groups i can add. Idea is that then cant mix breed and posibillity to keep them togethere ( typ of food, tempetarure etc )

Thanks
Best regards

[Jobro]

Hello,

you will need a really big tank to breed 5 or more species in it.

I guess one of the blackwater Ancistrus like L183 or L184 would be a fit.

Panaqolus might not be a perfect fit, due to food, but probably doable with a good food mixture. Maybe a Hemiancistrus (l200 low fin or L128) but I guess they might grow too big for you.

Zonancistrus is another possibility here, L168.

[Richard B]

One member of a genus should eliminate hybridisation as indicated by Jobro above

[bravorauch]

Hello,

Thanks for response.
Would l183 and l333 mix breed ? In general would ancistrus and hypancistrus mix breed ?

Same about L 134 and L168 ( for l168 it say ´´Ancistrus brachyurus, Peckoltia brachyura, Zonancistrus brachyurus`` So its Peckoltia like L 134. There i am a bit confused.

I was thinking also about L397 to add with L333 and L134.

[TwoTankAmin]

While some fish will mix parameter-wise, they may not have similar diets. Ancistrus, Hypancistrus and Panaqolus (as noted above) all have different dietary needs. But, as we know all to well, many fish are more than willing to eat things which are not really good for them. I am not sure feeding a mix of foods is a workable solution for this.

Most breeders tend to do species tanks. However, it some folks will have two species. But trying to breed 5 different species presents problems because in somes cases species of the same Genera will hybridize.

Picking the P. compta and the 333 can work as they are different genera but can easily share parameters and diet. The 333 likes it warmer but there is a decent temperature overlap you can work with- from about 77 to 83F.

For what its worth, my personal opinion is that you are biting off a bit more than you can chew here. If you have never spawned plecos before, I would suggest you succeed with one species before you dive into trying to do five all in the same tank. At most stick with the 2 you mentioned 333 and 134.

[bravorauch]

Hello,

Thanks for straight answer.
I had plecos several times in many years, but i never had so much ambitions like now lol, and never had more then 1 species at the time.
But i agree with you. Since i dont know where to start reading and learning about mix breeding, which species i can have together even if they not suppose to be together, thats why i wanted to ask here.
My plan is to have 5,6 different species and if it need 5 different additional aquariums thats not a problem, ll just buy . So far i have 2 aquariums good size and good filtration. Already next week i ll have l134 together with my l333.
In other tank i am maybe thinking to add L397 and L 201

What u think about these 2 set ups

Thanks again for help and sharing ur experience

[Jobro]

L183 or L184 are often kept on a more carnivorious diet by breeders. I do not want to start a debate here If this is recommendable or not. But L183 did fine alongside Hypancistrus & Peckoltia for me.


There will be no interbreeding between Ancistrus and hypancistrus etc. Only same genus will interbreed. L168 is zonancistrus, they are really different from peckoltia.

L397 and L201 are not the best idea. L397 should not get too much protein. But L201 needs more protein. Bad combo. L397 could go rather with L184(looks a little like L201 at least) and they will do fine on a more herbivorous diet like L397. L397, as any Panaqolus needs a lot of wood for his diet. Ancistrus like wood as well.

[bravorauch]

L183 or L184 are often kept on a more carnivorious diet by breeders. I do not want to start a debate here If this is recommendable or not. But L183 did fine alongside Hypancistrus & Peckoltia for me.


There will be no interbreeding between Ancistrus and hypancistrus etc. Only same genus will interbreed. L168 is zonancistrus, they are really different from peckoltia.

L397 and L201 are not the best idea. L397 should not get too much protein. But L201 needs more protein. Bad combo. L397 could go rather with L184(looks a little like L201 at least) and they will do fine on a more herbivorous diet like L397. L397, as any Panaqolus needs a lot of wood for his diet. Ancistrus like wood as well.

So if i understand well Ancistrus and Hypancistrus wont mix breed at all ?

For example if i choose 5 favorite plecos and put in same tank
1. Hypancistrus
2. Ancistrus
3. Panaqolus
4. Peckoltia
5. Baryancistrus

In theory there wont be a mix breeding at all ?
Then i am wondering what would be the concequences of having for example l397,l183,l333 which have different diet?

Thanks for responce

[nvcichlids]

You have fish that die due to receiving diets they aren't supposed to consume. Herbivore plecos have a hard time breaking down everything in a protein based food, and same for the reverse.

The advice given is best.

Just because you want to keep 5 species in one tank does not mean it is what's best for the fish. Why bother keeping nice, most likely, expensive fish if you dont want to give them the care they deserve and need.

Can an baby eat regular food? Im sure they could if mushed enough, but you dont see people feeding infants regular food. Its milk/formula for a reason.. it's what is best for their well being.

[Jobro]

So if i understand well Ancistrus and Hypancistrus wont mix breed at all ?

For example if i choose 5 favorite plecos and put in same tank
1. Hypancistrus
2. Ancistrus
3. Panaqolus
4. Peckoltia
5. Baryancistrus

In theory there wont be a mix breeding at all ?
Then i am wondering what would be the concequences of having for example l397,l183,l333 which have different diet?

Thanks for responce

Yes, there will be no interbreeding.

Some fish may grow slower or never reach full size or get sick and may even die if they do not receive the right food.

I do not think there are a lot of rivers out there in brazil/SA that offer only a vegetarian or meaty diet or a river where there is only wood but no proteins available. I'm pretty sure there are various kinds of food available to most plecos in the wild. And I'm also sure they are rather opportunistic about their food in the wild. Not saying that having too much protein on a panaqolus diet is a good thing in any way. But thinking that a panaqolus would never eat some dead fish or insects living in or on wood is just as wrong.

I have seen wild hypancistrus eat as much wood as any panaqolus would, when no other "viable" food was available (they did not like pleco wafers). They may be specialized in some way, but they are still some kind of flexible.

Also, almost all industrial pleco wafers etc. will offer something between 30 and 40% protein. Most plecos in the hobby get those on a daily basis. Most do fine on it.
Might not be optimal, but seems to work somehow in a lot of cases. Just think about all the falsely advertised Panaqolus Maccus that live their lives as "Peckoltia Pulcher" or "Peckoltia Vittata" out there. Some do not even have any wood in their tanks. They somehow manage to get along, I guess and/or hope so. Many things do work. But if you want to do good to your fish and also breed you might have to look into the details about those fish and their natural habitats and habits.

AND STILL, I would recommend going for a species setup first and get them to start breeding seperately. Learn to handle and raise fry. Once you do know your fish and you learned about their diets and behaviour and as you notice their differences you may or may not want to try and breed some of them in a bigger tank together. These are alive animals. Not all will behave alike. What works for some must not work for you and vice versa. I do not think that this is an impossible task at all. But I do not think it is easy at all and nothing to be considered for a beginner. And sorry to state, your questions would suggest you are far from being an experienced pleco breeder, yet . Start slow. This hobby needs patience. Grow with your fish. Grow with the experiences. Do not start too big. it might backfire sooner than you expect.

I do not write this in order to encourage you to breed them all together. But I do know everyone is free to do as he pleases, so it's better to overinform you right here and now before it's too late.

Peckoltia and hypancistrus in one tank is a no brainer, this will work. Zonancistrus should do fine with Peckoltia and Hypancistrus as well.
Panaqolus and Ancistrus can be a match as well.
Baryancistrus and Ancistrus/panaqolus as well. Depending on the Baryancistrus species. (Dreaming is fine, but breeding Baryancistrus is something you should not get your hopes up. Most also grow bigger than the 15cm you suggested.)

[bravorauch]

So if i understand well Ancistrus and Hypancistrus wont mix breed at all ?

For example if i choose 5 favorite plecos and put in same tank
1. Hypancistrus
2. Ancistrus
3. Panaqolus
4. Peckoltia
5. Baryancistrus

In theory there wont be a mix breeding at all ?
Then i am wondering what would be the concequences of having for example l397,l183,l333 which have different diet?

Thanks for responce

Yes, there will be no interbreeding.

Some fish may grow slower or never reach full size or get sick and may even die if they do not receive the right food.

I do not think there are a lot of rivers out there in brazil/SA that offer only a vegetarian or meaty diet or a river where there is only wood but no proteins available. I'm pretty sure there are various kinds of food available to most plecos in the wild. And I'm also sure they are rather opportunistic about their food in the wild. Not saying that having too much protein on a panaqolus diet is a good thing in any way. But thinking that a panaqolus would never eat some dead fish or insects living in or on wood is just as wrong.

I have seen wild hypancistrus eat as much wood as any panaqolus would, when no other "viable" food was available (they did not like pleco wafers). They may be specialized in some way, but they are still some kind of flexible.

Also, almost all industrial pleco wafers etc. will offer something between 30 and 40% protein. Most plecos in the hobby get those on a daily basis. Most do fine on it.
Might not be optimal, but seems to work somehow in a lot of cases. Just think about all the falsely advertised Panaqolus Maccus that live their lives as "Peckoltia Pulcher" or "Peckoltia Vittata" out there. Some do not even have any wood in their tanks. They somehow manage to get along, I guess and/or hope so. Many things do work. But if you want to do good to your fish and also breed you might have to look into the details about those fish and their natural habitats and habits.

AND STILL, I would recommend going for a species setup first and get them to start breeding seperately. Learn to handle and raise fry. Once you do know your fish and you learned about their diets and behaviour and as you notice their differences you may or may not want to try and breed some of them in a bigger tank together. These are alive animals. Not all will behave alike. What works for some must not work for you and vice versa. I do not think that this is an impossible task at all. But I do not think it is easy at all and nothing to be considered for a beginner. And sorry to state, your questions would suggest you are far from being an experienced pleco breeder, yet . Start slow. This hobby needs patience. Grow with your fish. Grow with the experiences. Do not start too big. it might backfire sooner than you expect.

I do not write this in order to encourage you to breed them all together. But I do know everyone is free to do as he pleases, so it's better to overinform you right here and now before it's too late.

Peckoltia and hypancistrus in one tank is a no brainer, this will work. Zonancistrus should do fine with Peckoltia and Hypancistrus as well.
Panaqolus and Ancistrus can be a match as well.
Baryancistrus and Ancistrus/panaqolus as well. Depending on the Baryancistrus species. (Dreaming is fine, but breeding Baryancistrus is something you should not get your hopes up. Most also grow bigger than the 15cm you suggested.)

I do not write this in order to encourage you to breed them all together. But I do know everyone is free to do as he pleases, so it's better to overinform you right here and now before it's too late.

Thats why i am a member of this forum, to get right answers in right time, i say BIG thanks to you and all members who posted here.
The way how u write and explain its exactly what i needed , i would probably explain same way to you in something i am expert ;)

So, i have ordered 2 tanks 100x30x50cm ( 50 is deep ) in 1 tank i gonna move my l134 and l333, in second one i will buy 2 more groups, first one will be l183, what fit the best with ancistrus and its easy to breed ?

Also, would you like to write me brand ( commercially prepared or home prepared) diets u think are the best for combo L333 and L134. Right now i am giving shrimp mix .
From your experience with brand is the best to buy and how should i variate their diet.

Best regards and thanks for help

Just to add, whats ur oppinion about second tank with L183 and L201 together ? Would it work as L134 and L333 ?
My first goal is not to breed them, i just want to make them the best condition to live .

[Jobro]

L201 is definitely one of the easier to breed and I think they should do fine with L183. Ofer some vegetables like sweet potatoe, carot, bellpepers cucumber or zucchini to your ancistrus. Hypancistrus and Peckoltia do eat some veggies as well. Soft wood is (in my oppinion) a must in any pleco tank. It provides shelter and food.

I won't recommend a food brand here. To be honest, I do use quite a lot of different ones and they are all working. Some plecos do like ones more than the others. But I guess it always depends on what they were used to. So asking the breeder would be a better choice here. I prefer smaller sized foods over bigger ones. The bigger plecos will contest the food and if you add more smaller tablets instead of view big ones, the weaker individuals have a better chance to get some.

About tank size, I think plecos prefer a bigger bottom area over height. So if your base area is 100x50 that would be better than 100x30. I'm not sure what deepth means in this context since I'm no native english speaker here .

There should be plenty of sources out in the web for each of those species and their diets and breeding requirements and so on. You should take your time and read them. Best is to get multiple sources. These are animals and the more experiences you read the better. Because they are all different and there is no 100% accurate answer.

Going with some different pleco wafers/tabs and some veggies (once a week) and maybe some shrimp, fish or mussel (once in a month) should be fine for all 4 of them.

[bravorauch]

Yes, iwas reading a lot in a mean time, and gained some info. I will order different wafels and see how it works. Yes, i ment base will be 100X50.
I am still reading a lot, so if i need some more info, and more direct information about something i ll write here . Of course as soon as i am ready with myproject, i ll ppost pictures here .

Thanks for all
Best regards