TSN (Pseudoplatystoma Fasciatum) advice needed and sharing my experience

All posts regarding the care and breeding of these catfishes from South America.
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EJA0000
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Re: TSN (Pseudoplatystoma Fasciatum) advice needed and sharing my experience

Post by EJA0000 »

Small update:
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Have been changing water regular this week I still do not see signs of improvement or even changes at all.

He is eating but in my opinion clearly not as he should. His body mass is more than just good and it looks he is gaining even more weight instead of losing weight. Probably because he is not active at all. He is mainly hiding. When the caimans hang for a long time at one place he is hanging there too but he doesn’t directly follow them in case they move. His behavior does not show a happy catfish.

All scratches on his head are gone but there is still clear viable pitting below his eyes and above the top corner of his gills.

I do notice that sometimes he is breathing a bit more heavily. But definitely nothing excessive.

Aldo most parameters of the water do not change and are extremely stable, in the “pollution” area it seems again things are difficult to keep in balance.

NH4 remains 0,05 mg/l perfect
NO2 = 0 mg/l perfect

NO3 before water changing between 50 and 100mg/l and after changing the water between 25 and 50 mg/l. But within 1,5 days it's back at 50 -100 mg/l. Looking at the past, some periods it was very good and easy to keep between 25 and 50 mg/l with some water changes. Other periods it was also hard to keep it below the 100 mg/l. From the past I know that if I do not change water for like 1,5 wks it goes even towards the 150 – 200 mg/l. Putting plant in the pond would help but I do not have sufficient light to let them thrive. After a couple of weeks they slowly die. So only a small amount of java fern is in the tank. It survives but that’s all.

In the past guppies did fine in the tank. And for quite some time I had the Acanthicus Adonis and Corydoras Aenues which seem to do perfectly fine.
Considering the above, measuring no fully out of line values and that the TSN is not responding on the water changes makes me rethink again. But I have no clue where to look for solutions!
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EJA0000
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Re: TSN (Pseudoplatystoma Fasciatum) advice needed and sharing my experience

Post by EJA0000 »

Oh,... forgot to mention. I have no idea how big he is right now but he is still visibly and significantly growing!
Bas Pels
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Re: TSN (Pseudoplatystoma Fasciatum) advice needed and sharing my experience

Post by Bas Pels »

Reading the above, I would try to enhance the lighting. Your electricity cost more or less the same as I pay, 2 watts for 12 hours a day would cost around 1 euro a year.

That is, apart from the aquiring costs, a 10 watt LED lamp costs 5 euros a year in electricity (a year is ~9000 hrs, and electricity = 22 ct a kwh. 4500 * 0,010 * 0,22 = 5 ). But it would enhance plantgrowth, and thus your water, significantly
cats have whiskers
EJA0000
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Re: TSN (Pseudoplatystoma Fasciatum) advice needed and sharing my experience

Post by EJA0000 »

A few LED’s compared to the other costs are not even on my mind.

It’s more or less a “design” and “purpose” issue that light and plants are difficult.

There is quite some (heat) lightning in the enclosure. But the issue is that the land area is above a big part of the water. Water surface is approx. 1,44 m2 and the land area above the water is approx. 1,1m2. Doing the math shows that the actual open water area is way too small to add light from above.
Due to the height differences in the land platforms and depth lines used you do not notice this straight away when you look at the enclosure. You can perfectly overlook the whole water surface and enough light spreads to have a decent tempered light in the water. The caimans can also enter the water from different points.

The principle behind all land area above the water is to provide your animals with maximum space in the square meters used for the enclosure. Building compact means also less overall energy cost. This species of caimans when still young naturally hide during the daytime e.g. under riverbanks and appreciate this concept really a lot.

The other issue is that as soon as one of the caimans “flies” through the water or hides in the water plants, these plants damage severe, they get loose, etc. Mainly in big natural ponds you see plants doing well in combinations with crocodilians. But even then these plants are often very robust floating plants, duckweed or reed type of plants. For this type of caimans tempered light is even mandatory.

People with big Cichlids have more or less a similar problems and counter act this like I do now by exchanging a lot of water.

This is just a grow up tank. In the next tank, still a grow up tank, much more space will be available and I want at least one spot directly above the water for some water plants. But the amount of plants will still not be enough to consume the full amount of NO3.
The filtration system for the next enclosure is still in concept, but to better filter the water I’m thinking to use the plants on the land area to gain some aquaponic support to compensate for the lack of water plants. But this does not help me now. If it would clearly help this fish I could buy a large cement bucket D= 80cm, fill it with gravel and plants, and place it outside the enclosure in between the pump filtration hose. However this does require to fully reorganize the living room! Arround December I must have a new enclosure which means then again reorganizing the living room.

Another option is to buy a small swimming pool (2000ltr?) and new filter to temporary house the TSN alone. However before the bacteria culture is good enough not to get nitrate issues it can take up to 6 weeks. And...I need this space to build the new enclosure.

I also still would not know what exactly is causing the problem. So it could possibly still pop up in the next enclosure as well.
Viktor Jarikov
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Re: TSN (Pseudoplatystoma Fasciatum) advice needed and sharing my experience

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

EJA0000 wrote: 14 May 2017, 16:26 Sorry no idea why the youtube video's don't work but clicking the link works for me.
To embed a video click on "youtube" button, then paste the video URL and delete all the generic stuff before the last portion, which is unique to the video. Leave only the portion after the = sign.
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EJA0000
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Re: TSN (Pseudoplatystoma Fasciatum) advice needed and sharing my experience

Post by EJA0000 »

Pfffff……..

In situations where you do not see improvement in your pet you tend to spend money on things that are probably not going to solve the issue. But then at least you can say to yourself that you tried.

So to make myself feel better I ordered a brand new freshwater protein skimmer including a water pump. Crap cost me 290 Euro in total! Of course I only bought it because I want to use it also for my next enclosure. It all has a capacity that is for my current enclosure to much so hopefully I can make it work.

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The system will add significant flow, improve filtration and adds massive amounts of air to the water. Hopefully this will help my TSN to feel better. Of course I have no found arguments to say that this is a solution. But I believe it will certainly make some improvements. And I can only hope that it is sufficient to get some improvement in the health of my TSN.

The protein skimmer is a Tornado II including air pump, bio carrier filter media and flow meter. With a total price of 198 Euro’s. Normal price without the mentioned extra’s is 199 – 249 Euro’s. For a second hand they ask approx 125 Euro.

There are better, but also more expensive, protein skimmers for koi ponds but they are actually way too large for my purpose and some advised that, aldo the tornado is more sensitive, if set properly, I would probably have better results with this one. It also is more energy efficient because it has no venturi.
The results with the Tornado II for koi ponds are diverse. Therefore some consider them poor and others excellent. But the same counts for very expensive ones.

Product description internet:
The Tornado II Protein Skimmer is the New improved version of the popular Tornado protein skimmer. No more pressure loss on the inlet due to the absence of a venturi. Water goes straight into the filter. Air is blown into the 4mm air inlet through a supplied flowmeter to ensure a continuous flow of 0,5 l/m (30 l/h). This pressure ensures the separation of the produced foam through the foam outlet pipe.
The Tornado II Protein Skimmer is a combination of three different filter systems. The Tornado II Protein Skimmer filter operates biological, mechanical and chemical.
The Tornado II Protein Skimmer principle operates as follows: The surface of an air bubble attracts dissolved substances out of the water. Because of the adhesion of the bubbles these substances, like chemicals, waste particles, colourants and algae, are concentrated. By means of an air pump, air is mixed with water.
By forcing this mixture through the bio rings to a lower part, there is a long contact between air and water. This changes the surface tension of the water continuously and creates a thick foam. This foam will be separated from the cleared water by a perforated cone and exits through the foam outlet. Dissolved substances like; phosphates, ammonia, humus acids, colourants, proteins and a number of heavy metals, are filtered out of the water and separated together with the foam.
The extraction of dissolved substances is not possible with normal filters and can only be done if chemicals are added.
The Tornado II Protein Skimmer filter has various advantages:
• Stabilizes pH
• Removes colourants
• Increases dissolved oxygen
• Not dependant on bacteria, works as soon as the pump is running.
• Total height 74cm, Ø16cm. Water inlet Ø25mm
• water outlet Ø40 mm,
• foam outlet Ø25mm.
• Pump capacity max. 5m³/h.


On the internet I read that the pump capacity should be at least 1500 l/hr for the Tornado II and as indicated above max. 5000 l/hr.

Pump:

Lately I have been checking different brands, prices and efficiency of pumps. The efficiency is difficult because often they do not meet what they promise and some build up more pressure and others gain more flow.

I felt most confident with the Aquaforte DM series looking at energy efficiency, quality and price.
aquaforte-dm-serie.jpg
Below an overview that I made of this series:
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As with most pump series from any brand you see that they become less energy efficient as they become larger. The overview show my calculations that indicate that the biggest is roughly 32% less energy efficient compared to the smallest one. Probably there are reasons why you can’t look at it in this way but to the best of my knowledge I try to interpret the figures and come to these conclusions. Don't consider it scientific.

My preference would have been the 6500. But this one is just one size too big for the Tornado so I didn’t take that change and bought the 3500. Not the 5000 because it looks like it is 11% less efficient. So I also decided that within my filtration system I will use this pump only to feed the skimmer. So considering it runs 24/7 every Watt in absolute figures will count. And the smallest is still big enough for the Tornado.

I have no ideas how to make this equipment fit on my current tank but I will do my best to figure something out. Hopefully I will have the equipment around Wednesday.
EJA0000
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Re: TSN (Pseudoplatystoma Fasciatum) advice needed and sharing my experience

Post by EJA0000 »

This is a bad weekend for my bank account!

I ordered additional to th eabove protein skimmer and pump a "TMC Pro Clear Ultima 30 watt". Also this could help the TSN a little bit by improving the water quality.
uvc-pro-clear-ultima-tmc-30-watt.jpg
Also this I ordered with in mind my next enclosure. Also for this tank it’s capacity is like the protein skimmer too big. But that is mainly a temporary energy consumption issue.

I have thought about taking an Ozone generator and reactor instead of UVC. However these systems are very expensive and require huge installations. The last requires probably some explanation.
Aldo ozone is instable it’s half time still takes quite some time. This results that if you have a reactor of e.g. two meters long it still only has an efficiency of approx. 10% regarding oxidation (not power/electricity). Meaning that the other 90% is dangerous rest ozone that you have to blowout through a carbon filter. So most small reactors that you can buy are even less effective then the two meter long DIY ones.

Aldo I do believe a good Ozon installation is better I think that for my use an UVC is the better choose. UVC is more compact, much cheaper, less complex, etc.

The opinions on the internet differ but it seem another advantage is that UVC can improve your REDOX balance and an Ozone generator can not.

With the TMC Pro Clear Ultima 30 watt I can go with my enclosure to a level 2 sterilization of the water.

Below link tells something about different UV lamps and indicates that the TMC Pro clear ultima is one of the better ones. Possibly there are differences in the ones supplied to the US and the ones for Europe.

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com ... ml#vecton4

Unfortunately this order has a longer delivery time than the protein skimmer and pump but likely it is all in next weekend.
EJA0000
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Re: TSN (Pseudoplatystoma Fasciatum) advice needed and sharing my experience

Post by EJA0000 »

Forgot to mention:

I paid 133,- Euro's for it. Prices for UV sterilizers go from approx 50 Euro's to very expensive.
Apparently a lot of the cheap ones perform very poor and are only usable as clarifier and not as a sterilizer. It took me more than a day of checking out the internet to determine which one was the best for me. I have been reading quite a lot about them and it still feels I know very little on the subject. Hopefully it has been enough to ensure I bought something that will work well. So before you buy one, my advice would be to do some research first.

Also know that this thing is not small. They are bigger than you probably would expect!
Viktor Jarikov
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Re: TSN (Pseudoplatystoma Fasciatum) advice needed and sharing my experience

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Lots of interesting info to chew on. Thanks for sharing.

IDK about sterilizing, never used one for that purpose, but have a 40 watt clarifier that kept our 10,000 gal koi pond clear of microscopic algae aka pea soup. Paid $400 for it about 7 years ago.
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