Synodontis with injuries?

[nstewart]

First, I'm not sure what type USD catfish I have. I've had her (pretty sure she's female) for five years. Her name is Ethel.

She lives in a 40 gallon breeder tank filtered by a Fluval 306 canister tank. She lives with a Gourami and three Red-eye Tetras. Water is in good condition and temperature is around 80 degrees. Gravel substrate with silk plants, hiding logs and other ornaments (which she has knocked over)

Just recently she's started swimming crazily around the tank. She jumps out of the water, whips herself around, digs at the gravel and darts from end to end. She's never done this as an adult (when she was younger, yes). At first it freaked me out, but she seems happier than she's been in a while - not just sitting on the bottom or hiding. My other fish seem fine - no behavior changes. She does this intermittently and swims and sleeps in between.

But now Ethel has a nasty gouge and what looks like white pocks and scratches on her body. It doesn't appear to be Ich, the spots are too large and not symmetric. I think she may be hurting herself in her flailing or the Gourami is doing mean things in the dark (I keep an eye on them during the day).

The rear flank gouge is deep enough to see pink flesh and I'm very worried about her. Any advice is more than welcome. I really don't want her to suffer and I definitely don't want to loose her. Here's some pics.


A close up of the gouge and you can see the white scratches in the upper right hand corner


Here you can see the Gourami and the white marks going around her eye and down her toward her nose"


More of her eye area - the white is even around her mouth




Thank you for any help - I want her to get better!!

[Martin S]

Hi. looks like

Synodontis eupterus

. The gouge needs heal, and for that, clean water, treat with something like Melafix. From the photos, there may be the start of LLE (lateral line erosion) though it may just be scratches from the rock (fingers crossed it's the latter). But have a read of this post.
With scaleless fish like this, especialy when their colour is so dark, even the smallest of scratches can look much worse that it really is, but as stated earlier, keep the temp constant, ensure you have sufficient filtration and aeration and regualr water changes will help the healing process.
Hope this helps
Martin

[nstewart]

Thank you so much for the feedback!

[Viktor Jarikov]

Looks to me like hybrid #1 in Cat-eLog.

Sounds like it may be an external parasite and the fish tries to shake / scratch it off itself.

[nstewart]

Looks to me like hybrid #1 in Cat-eLog.

Sounds like it may be an external parasite and the fish tries to shake / scratch it off itself.

How can determine if it's a parasite and treat it?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Correct diagnosis may or may not be easy. Have you seen the link Martin's provided?

Have a look at this too if you will: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... ng.210102/

Can it be a parasite? Anything new in the tank?

What are the water parameters in terms of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness?

[nstewart]

Ethel died overnight. In fact, my whole tank died. Doing water check again - although all was stable yesterday. Wish I knew what happened. Sad day here.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Sorry to hear.

If it was a gradual buildup of something deleterious, the fish wouldn't likely die all at the same time and would usually get sick first.

Sounds like you have had a catastrophic event. Most usually it is either high ammonia, or high nitrite, or low dissolved oxygen.

[nstewart]

The whole thing is weird. But I realized earlier this morning that there is one survivor: the kissing/pink Gourami. But Hoover is one mighty tough fish.

I just checked water parameters again and only nitrite is elevated:

Ph = 6.6
Ammonia = 0 ppm
Nitrate = 40 ppm
Nitrite = 1.0 ppm
Water temp = 78 degrees

Using an API test tube kit - not strips.

I'm at a loss for why they died. The catfish, as noted, had been behaving strangely. But the three red-eyed tetras were fine when I went to bed. Could Melafix or Pimafix have caused this to happen? I dosed the tank twice in a 48 hour period before everyone died, using 5 ml/10 gallons of each.

[Viktor Jarikov]

You are using a good test. That's helpful.

IIRC these meds rob the water of oxygen so people usually add more stirring and aeration when adding them.

Nitrite at 1 ppm is not elevated in my book. I'd say 0.25 ppm is elevated. 1 ppm is bad. But in any case, this says the tank was not cycled, was not coping with the bioload. It always spells trouble, sooner or later. At 1 ppm nitrite, I don't think fish'd have any kind of appetite as they'd be struggling to breath / absorb enough oxygen to be comfortable.

Nitrite robs blood of the ability to carry oxygen - that's a double whammy coupled with Mela+Pima lowering oxygen concentration in water. I'm guessing this is what killed your fish ~all at the same time. Not weird but rather makes sense.

Gourami are labyrinth fishes and supplement the gill action with breathing air - so yours was able to cope better but it does not mean it is comfortable, it's struggling to survive too, just a bit more successful.

Plus fish have no bone marrow to quickly reproduce red blood cells. Look up brown blood disease if you will.

[nstewart]

Thank you for the insight Viktor. I feel bad I killed them, trying to help them. But I learned something from this experience and hope to never repeat it again.

I will keep a better eye on my nitrite levels and go with water changes over medicines when there is a problem. I'm doing water 25% changes every three days now, have installed new charcoal filters and adjusted the outflow so it disrupts more surface water for better oxygenation.

Thanks again to everyone who offered advice. It is much appreciated.

[Viktor Jarikov]

FWIW, I've killed 2x-3x more fish than I have now (of which I have several hundred). Perhaps 1/2 of them I killed by doing the same - trying to help them.

Is there a specific reason for you using charcoal? Are you taking out the meds and then removing them? I don't use them. Never have. IMHO they usually do more harm than good because they take up the space that could be otherwise occupied by the biomedia.

Due diligence would dictate to analyze why your tank was not cycled and correct it.

$0.02

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Sorry to hear of your losses. I'm sure a lot of us have killed fish through kindness, I certainly have.

I'll put my hand up and say I'm not a very good fish keeper, but I've found methods that compensate for my lack of skill, mainly by creating stable, resilient tanks where changes happen much more slowly and give me more time to respond.

I will keep a better eye on my nitrite levels and go with water changes over medicines when there is a problem. I'm doing water 25% changes every three days now, have installed new charcoal filters and adjusted the outflow so it disrupts more surface water for better oxygenation....

Have a look at this article <"Aeration and dissolved oxygen in the aquarium":(http://plecoplanet.com/?page_id=829)>. I wrote it for keepers of rheophilic catfish, but the same principles can be applied to any aquarium.

I like regular water changes, but for me the single factor that makes aquarium care easier is having a planted tank.

Plants aren't just decoration, they can fulfil a really important role in biological filtration. I know your Gourami is a plant eater, but you can have a floating plant like Amazon Frogbit, and others may be able to suggest plants that they don't eat.

Have a look at the <"Duckweed Index" (http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... hp?t=39714)>, it is a simple technique for estimating the nutrient status of your tank using the health and growth rate of a floating plant.

cheers Darrel

[littletoot2016]

I had a problem with melafix a week ago. all the fish started breathing hard and were at the surface. Luckily I caught it in time and did two 50% H2O changes and didn't lose a fish. I have always found a light dose of salt( 1 tsp per 10 gallons) works well to aid in cleaning a wound and help heal it. That is a real light dose for skin fish. Also a third to a half dose of ick cure (malachite green) at the same time as salt helps clean the wound and kills some parasites. Good luck next time. Don't feel to bad, I've killed so many fish with kindness that I don't even want to think about it !! Harry.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Yup. As stated, melafix causes a significant drop in the dissolved oxygen concentration, which suffocates the fish.