New Synodontis??
- SynoPetri
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New Synodontis??
Hi at all,
I have a question. What do you think about this Synodontis?
I have seen it on a german page, there it is called S. verlifer. But when I wanted to find it in the Cat-E-Log I was suprised, that there is no S. verlifer in it. Is is a new Synodontis?
I have a question. What do you think about this Synodontis?
I have seen it on a german page, there it is called S. verlifer. But when I wanted to find it in the Cat-E-Log I was suprised, that there is no S. verlifer in it. Is is a new Synodontis?
Georg
- Silurus
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I think the site meant <i>S. velifer</i>. However, the fish is not <i>S. velifer</i> because the spots on the head are too small (<i>C. velifer</i> has large spots on the head) and the dorsal fin is too short (the first two soft dorsal-fin rays of <i>S. velifer</i> are elongated, giving a sail-fin appearance).
The color pattern of the fish is somewhat reminescent of <i>S. katangae</i>, but the body is too stout and the head of <i>S. katangae</i> has not spots. The spots in <i>S. katangae</i> are smaller as well.
The other possibility is <i>S. polystigma</i>, and here the resemblance is much closer. <i>Synodontis polystigma</i> does not have spots on the head as well, however.
I would call this <i>S.</i> cf. <i>polystigma</i>.
The color pattern of the fish is somewhat reminescent of <i>S. katangae</i>, but the body is too stout and the head of <i>S. katangae</i> has not spots. The spots in <i>S. katangae</i> are smaller as well.
The other possibility is <i>S. polystigma</i>, and here the resemblance is much closer. <i>Synodontis polystigma</i> does not have spots on the head as well, however.
I would call this <i>S.</i> cf. <i>polystigma</i>.
- SynoPetri
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Hi Silurus,
could be that the site meant S. velifer. However, I think that this fish is very interesting. It is offered in germany on http://www.aqua-haus.de. They say that it will reach 5 to 6 cm. To my opinion this is a really small Syno but I think I will buy 5 to 7 of them because they cost only €7,50 and they look beautiful.
But there is also something that I don’t understand in your post. What does this cf. mean? For what does it stand? I have seen it quite often but I never knew what it means.
An other question, have you got a photo of S. ploystigma? If yes, then I would ask you to post it.
That’s it for now.
could be that the site meant S. velifer. However, I think that this fish is very interesting. It is offered in germany on http://www.aqua-haus.de. They say that it will reach 5 to 6 cm. To my opinion this is a really small Syno but I think I will buy 5 to 7 of them because they cost only €7,50 and they look beautiful.
But there is also something that I don’t understand in your post. What does this cf. mean? For what does it stand? I have seen it quite often but I never knew what it means.
An other question, have you got a photo of S. ploystigma? If yes, then I would ask you to post it.
That’s it for now.
Georg
- Silurus
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cf. in a species name just means that the species is probably not polystigma (but I'm not 100% sure), but because polystigma is the species it resembles most.
I could have used aff. polystigma as well, in which case, it would mean that I am 100% sure it is not polystigma, but something else for which no name exists.
Couldn't find a photo of polystigma to post here. I have a drawing I can email you, though.
I could have used aff. polystigma as well, in which case, it would mean that I am 100% sure it is not polystigma, but something else for which no name exists.
Couldn't find a photo of polystigma to post here. I have a drawing I can email you, though.
- Silurus
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- Silurus
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- Silurus
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- Silurus
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No photos, I'm afraid. The only ones are at the back of the book and show the bones only. At least there are drawings for all the species covered. And, except for a handful of species described since 1971, the book covers all <i>Synodontis</i>.
Last edited by Silurus on 14 Mar 2003, 20:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Hello
Ask your LFS if it's tank bred or wildcaught. I looked the website you mentionned and from their availaibility list I guess they have east european suppliers. This fish even nice could be a hybrid.
What's your standing point HH ?
About books I strongly recommend "Faune des poissons d'eau douces et saumâtres de l'Afrique de l'Ouest" Tome 2 by Paugy, Lévêque and Teugels from MRAC/ORSTOM
ISBN 2 7099 1078 0
Hope this helps
Charly
Ask your LFS if it's tank bred or wildcaught. I looked the website you mentionned and from their availaibility list I guess they have east european suppliers. This fish even nice could be a hybrid.
What's your standing point HH ?
About books I strongly recommend "Faune des poissons d'eau douces et saumâtres de l'Afrique de l'Ouest" Tome 2 by Paugy, Lévêque and Teugels from MRAC/ORSTOM
ISBN 2 7099 1078 0
Hope this helps
Charly
- Dinyar
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That was my first thought too, but I figured I shouldn't say that unless I had at least some circumstantial evidence.Charly EON wrote:This fish even nice could be a hybrid.
Sounds like at least circumstantial evidence.Charly EON wrote:I looked the website you mentionned and from their availaibility list I guess they have east european suppliers.
Dinyar
- Sid Guppy
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Looks like a very nice Syno to me; if it's a hybrid, it's more an ethical matter than anything else.
first off, most people -including me- think that the creation of hybrids is a bad thing. There's plenty nice syno's around for anyone. And buying hybrids will only make it worse, that's the sole reason those are created: money.
but if you're not sure, and if it's a nice, healthy reasonable priced fish; I think you just have to decide for yourself.
The best thing you CAN do so far, is not breeding it, and/or spreading the offspring in the hobby. But breding Syno's isn't easy on any account, so.....
first off, most people -including me- think that the creation of hybrids is a bad thing. There's plenty nice syno's around for anyone. And buying hybrids will only make it worse, that's the sole reason those are created: money.
but if you're not sure, and if it's a nice, healthy reasonable priced fish; I think you just have to decide for yourself.
The best thing you CAN do so far, is not breeding it, and/or spreading the offspring in the hobby. But breding Syno's isn't easy on any account, so.....
Plan B should not automatically be twice as much explosives as Plan A
- SynoPetri
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I do agree with your opinion that hybrids are an ethical matter. But how can I really be sure if a this fish is a hybrid or not. The only thing I can do is to send an e-mail and ask them. Maybe the will answer honestly.
I have already tried to contact them for information about the fish, this was last wednesday, but till today there was no answer. I have to say that this fact already made me thinking. And now the thing with being a hybrid. At the moment I don't know what I should think because on the one hand the Syno looks so beautiful but on the other hand I don't want to support the spreading of hybrids.
By the way, which lengh will S. velifer, polystigma or katangae reach. I want to know because I want to have a small one. The hybrid (?) will only reach 6 to 7 cm.
I have already tried to contact them for information about the fish, this was last wednesday, but till today there was no answer. I have to say that this fact already made me thinking. And now the thing with being a hybrid. At the moment I don't know what I should think because on the one hand the Syno looks so beautiful but on the other hand I don't want to support the spreading of hybrids.
By the way, which lengh will S. velifer, polystigma or katangae reach. I want to know because I want to have a small one. The hybrid (?) will only reach 6 to 7 cm.
Georg
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- Silurus
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- Silurus
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- Sid Guppy
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If you want to be ABSOLUTELY sure -100%- you're in for a rough treatment; as there seem to be several look-a-likes from all over Lake Tanganyika.
But in general; almost 98% of all Syno's, sold as S petricola; are dwarfs.
They can be distinguished by the following marks:
-petricola marks, such as white spines on dorsal AND pectorals both. (else you're getting S polli II)
-small eyes and a wide mouth
-uneven irregular pattern of bigger and smaller spots.
-a less 'stretched' shape, than the true petricola.
There's a nice article on the dwarf in the Catfish of the Month series, and plenty pics in the Cat-e-Log too; check 'em out.
But in general; almost 98% of all Syno's, sold as S petricola; are dwarfs.
They can be distinguished by the following marks:
-petricola marks, such as white spines on dorsal AND pectorals both. (else you're getting S polli II)
-small eyes and a wide mouth
-uneven irregular pattern of bigger and smaller spots.
-a less 'stretched' shape, than the true petricola.
There's a nice article on the dwarf in the Catfish of the Month series, and plenty pics in the Cat-e-Log too; check 'em out.
Plan B should not automatically be twice as much explosives as Plan A
- Dinyar
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As a rough generalization, Silurus is right in saying that the dwarf has larger and fewer spots per unit area. But this is not a rule, as I have a Zambian non-dwarf "petricola" (at least that's what I think it is, it's morphologically identical to another "petricola") that has few and large spots. Likewise, adipose fin shape can also be a bit confusing, as there appear to be several non-dwarf "petricola", which each seem to display differently shaped adipose fins.
To add to the confusion, the dwarf "petricola" from the north of the lake is darker than those from the south.
However, identifying the dwarf is relatively easy if you know what you're looking for, as they don't look much like even juvenile non-dwarfs. If you want to be REALLY sure, just keep it for a few years. If it gets longer than 5-6 cm SL and > 1 cm in height, it's not a dwarf.
We finally had a chance to see Matthes' original description of S. petricola. It's just two short paragraphs. It's clear from the few measurements listed that he's describing a non-dwarf, but that's about all that's clear. I'm no ichthyologist, but many of the most basic things you'd expect in a species description are lacking, e.g., which and how many specimens he examined, where they were collected, etc.
For now, at least this much seems clear: the dwarf "petricola" is a new, undescribed species.
BTW, does anyone know or have any guesses as to the etymology of the Latin word "petricola"?
Dinyar
To add to the confusion, the dwarf "petricola" from the north of the lake is darker than those from the south.
However, identifying the dwarf is relatively easy if you know what you're looking for, as they don't look much like even juvenile non-dwarfs. If you want to be REALLY sure, just keep it for a few years. If it gets longer than 5-6 cm SL and > 1 cm in height, it's not a dwarf.
We finally had a chance to see Matthes' original description of S. petricola. It's just two short paragraphs. It's clear from the few measurements listed that he's describing a non-dwarf, but that's about all that's clear. I'm no ichthyologist, but many of the most basic things you'd expect in a species description are lacking, e.g., which and how many specimens he examined, where they were collected, etc.
For now, at least this much seems clear: the dwarf "petricola" is a new, undescribed species.
BTW, does anyone know or have any guesses as to the etymology of the Latin word "petricola"?
Dinyar
- Silurus
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