L134 breeding cave size

[powerfulpumpkins]

Wonder if anyone can help. Currently I am not in a position to try breeding my L134's as they are just living in a mixed trop tank but soon hope to set them up in their own tank - still to sex them but looking to start moving in the right direction. I am thinking about their caves. I have put a collection in the tank (they live with some zebra plecs and a discus. Some caves are clay tunnels with a rounded back end, some are slate caves of the standard construction but I keep thinking to myself what actual dimentions are needed to be an ideal breeding home ? L134 isnt a big plec but is quite chunky in its body so has anyone with experience of breeding L134 any guidence on best cave requirements.
Thanks

[MatsP]

The general guide is that it should be "a little bigger than the parent fish". It needs to be deep enough that the male and female can fit in at the same time. Giving the fish a selection of a few different size caves - that way, the male can choose whatever cave he's happy with.

--
Mats

[Rabbit]

Im using these, but i agree best to provide a variation and see what is taken too.

[powerfulpumpkins]

Thanks for your replies, I dont think my caves are big enough because in general you would only fit one adult in the cave. So when looking at cave size then do the breeding pair enter the cave side by side or has it just got to have a dimention that is the width of two adults - either width or height. Thanks

[panaque]

Here's a pic of one of my males in his cave. He has raised 3 spawns in here so far, so clearly they like it. It should give you a good idea dimensions relative to the fish. The length of the cave is 15cm.

[davej]

I have had upwards of 20 spawns from my 10 L134's this year. All of the spawns have been in a D shapped cave that is almost the exact dimensions of the adult fish. I had some round and square caves and had fish in them all the time but never a spawn. When I replaced them with the D / triangular shaped cave I then experienced spawns in these locations.
One thing that also seems to help is a good strong currant across the front of the caves.

Good Luck!

[powerfulpumpkins]

Thanks for everyones replies ! I dont want to sound dim but DaveJ of your pairs spawn in a cave like shown in your pic how the heck do they do it lol ? Does she go in and spawn and then the male go in to fertilise ? I dont see how they can do it as the cave doesnt look big enough for two ?

[Rabbit]

They take turns one at a time, the only time the two are present at once is in the initial trapping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuKBxZeD ... re=related

[apistomaster]

Mine have bred in rectangular caves for five consecutive years but they always use the smallest size that two fish can possibly fit in.
This year my wild fish failed to spawn but my F1's just began to breed and they had the hand made clay caves which happen to have a "D" shaped cross section. The F1's began spawning later in the summer than early March as my wild breeders always have. I actually set them up later in the spring than I expected for good results this year. If they stay true to their parents' pattern then this spring could begin a much more productive season. I did have more F1 spawns than I expected but as first spawns often are, their broods sizes were usually about 12 which is about half my average size brood of 25. I have had a few as large as 35.
On one occasion a male spawned with two consecutive females within a day. I got about 45 from that odd spawn.

I wonder how well your H. zebra are faring with L134 sharing the same tank?
The H. zebra always seem more retiring than L134 and I made a mistake one time of trying to raise about 20 L260 fry with what started out being the same size L134 fry. The L260 were quickly left behind as they grow slowly like H. zebra fry. I lost half of them to the excessive competition before I realized how poorly they were doing together. I find L260 to be similar to H. zebra in every way that matters.

[powerfulpumpkins]

Ooops just realised the pic was posted by Panaque not DaveJ
All interesting stuff ! thanks for everyones feedback on this.
Apistomaster in relation to the zebras I was somewhat concerned to start with because the L134's seemed quite agressive but seems I had nothing to fear - I actually found a single baby zebra a few months ago - sadly failed to raise it but shows how the zebs are doing in a tank with L134's
I really need to focus and sex my L134's - no point trying to breed a bunch of males lol

[davej]

Here is a picture of the cave I have been using.

[powerfulpumpkins]

Thanks DaveJ so similar sized caves to what I have then. I note you have a pump directed across the front of them !

[YSR50]

My L134s have spawned in many different size/shape caves. They've used some slate caves that I made, both with square openings and triangle but not quite as tight as the one panaque showed.

Most of the spawning occurred in a cave that I never expected due to it's size.

http://www.kensfish.com/product3164.html
Guess it was due to the flow as I had a powerhead pointed across the front.

My latest few spawns were in a round clay cave.


I have a few different D shape caves that I've ordered from Australia over the years but have never had any luck with them.

davej, if you read this please PM me, I've been looking for some like the ones you're using.