building a "big" Potamotrygon/SA Catfishes tank

[ElTofi]

After the bad experience with this too young and small Brachyplatystoma, I have the opportunity to get 12-15 cm

Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum

from a supplier in my area...

I know we talked about this fish for my tank... and I know it could be touchy in case of spawning-breeding from other species in the tank... It's an old dream which I cannot easily let go...

Based on my population, do you think I could home of these ? At least for a few years ? I always have the opportunity to give it away to a public aquarium (TierPark Bern or Papillorama Kerzers) not too far from my place...

I'm waiting for your opinions... even if I almost made up my mind...

[MatsP]

I always have the opportunity to give it away to a public aquarium (TierPark Bern or Papillorama Kerzers) not too far from my place...

Do you know that these places would like your fish? Many public aquaria don't have space for "unwanted species".

--
Mats

[ElTofi]

TierPark have several tanks of more than 5'000 liters... especially one with stingrays and arowanas...

and Papillorama is something you have to visit if you come to Switzerland... in other wonders, they have a 100'000 liters "Nocturama" pond, where they house : Pseudoplatystoma, Arowanas, Stingrays, Pacu, Phractocephallus, Sailfin Plecos, giant Goramy (Osphronemus), and so on...

They have 3 domes, Papillorama, JungleTreck and Nocturama, each one hosting a specific exposition :

http://www.papiliorama.ch/default.asp?OrgID=5

Just great place !!!

and they are used to collect the "homeless and unresponsible" fishes from the whole Switzerland...

If interest on the Papillorama topic -> MP

[ElTofi]

some new pictures I borrowed (again) to Mr. Arnaud Filleul (thanks to him) :

Pseudoplatystoma tigrinum

with complex signs on his sides


which is different from

Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum

with vertical bars


B. fasciatum is much smaller than the "terrific"

Pseudoplatystoma corruscans

with spots which is a real "monster" in size and hunting behaviour

[sidguppy]

the first one looks like

Pseudoplatystoma reticulatum

to me, not tigrinum....

[ElTofi]

I'm not qualified to enter this topic... Arnaud explains on the initial french topic that localy, there are more than 15 "in between" species and that the local fishermen go quite irritated when someone tries to go further than the three vernacular name :

"Caparari" for the P. tigrinum
"Cachara" for the P. fasciatum
"Pintado" for the P. corruscans

I noticed to Arnaud that I used his pictures on this present topic... he may come to open a discussion on this very subject here... at least, I hope so...

[Arnaud Filleul]

Hi,

My name is Arnaud Filleul, I am a french paleontologist and writer, and I may actually know a lot of people participating to this forum. Since I have been invited by eltofi, it might be a good occasion to check if some people I know are around. I also have a question. I have been travelling all around the world, mostly for fishing articles, the last 15 years. I spend a few years in Brazil alone. When we catch a "caparari", we often have troubles to make a proper identification. I have not been through the bibliography for a while. Someone could give me a good recent article about Pseudoplatystoma reticulatum, and informations about the rios where the exact identification has first been done.

Thanks in advance

Arnaud

[ElTofi]

glad to see you here ! and for once, you will be the one who flood my topic... and you are welcome on it indeed !

[Arnaud Filleul]

I just wanted to add something, I actually went sampling in a few rios in Brazil, with a local researcher (Alec Zeinad), for genetic studies. From my experience, each rio has its own "form" of Pseudoplatystoma, and I could find at least 10-15 different forms just during my fishing explorations around Brazil. That's why my position is "wait and see" right now. I usually use only three species name : tigrinum, fasciatum, and corruscans. I think they use the same "strategy" in fishbase. But if there is specialist among you, I would welcome any information for an up to date classification.

Arnaud

[nedara]

Great job & nice combo fishes and plants above!

[ElTofi]

After the bad experience with this too young and small Brachyplatystoma, I have the opportunity to get 12-15 cm

Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum

from a supplier in my area...

It seems the "little" guys have grown a bit from end of March... they are supposed to be 25-30 cm (almost 1 foot) TL... I'll check that next Saturday, locally... and I'll make my decision with fish beeing seen... especially what they eat and what size bites they are able to swallow...

don't care about the yellow african cichlids (feeders), but I'd hate to loose a 15-18 cm Cichla (which are not so thick yet) because of an unexpected food-accident...

[ElTofi]

I'm quite proud of me I've been able to resist the temptation and I didn't get the 1 foot Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum, neither the 10 inches Phractocephallus which I saw this afternoon... Even if they were splendid and thriving...

it really wouldn't have been responsible... I'm still learning...

[racoll]

But if there is specialist among you, I would welcome any information for an up to date classification.

Hi Arnaud, this study recognised eight species, but this study hypothesised only four. As you can see, these closely related forms/species will always be taxonomically contentious.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Interesting stuff. Thanks so much Rupert. I wanna ask more questions but not here. A new thread may be worthy.

[racoll]

I wanna ask more questions but not here. A new thread may be worthy.

Why not post here Viktor ...

[Arnaud Filleul]

Thanks very much for the references (now, I have to read that). Never heard about P. magdaleniatum, by the way. I will compare their studies with my experiences in the jungle and will make a post if I have anything to add.

Arnaud

[sidguppy]

I've been able to resist the temptation and I didn't get the 1 foot Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum, neither the 10 inches Phractocephallus which I saw this afternoon... Even if they were splendid and thriving...

keep resisting that urge!

there are 2 reasons why that would have been really bad for your tank

first; those 2 catfishes would have depleted your tank.....apart from the stingrays and the Panaque's, all the other fish would have been eaten!
half grown and baby cichla's, myleus, metynnis, young Arowana's etc....
it would all be very expensive food.

second, as told: these tankbusters are common as dirt; no zoo or public aquarium is waiting for hobbyists rejects. not these


now if you manage to snatch the real Perunichthys perruno out of Venezuela or a Lophiosilurus alexandri, you still have some of the first issues (esp with the Lophiosilurus), but these are so rare that a zoo might like to take them.


also: if your stingrays breed (and stingrays often do), Pseudoplatystoma and Phractocephalus are well capable of feeding on the pups, stings and all.
or at least choking to death on em
both not good.....

[ElTofi]

you said it right, Sid... that's precisely why I didn't take the step...

those are predators ! and quite efficient at least...

not a risk I was ready to take...

[sidguppy]

I think a predator that will fit in there perfectly would be Aguarunichthys.

with an adult length of 35 cm or so and a slender built it will not eat any of your fish, but it still has all the great looks and attitude of the tankbuster Pimelodids.

[ElTofi]

I think a predator that will fit in there perfectly would be Aguarunichthys

the more I look at it, the more I find it great... But the point is that my tank is already with a heavy population (when adults)... so I think I'm gonna leave it in his actual state with no new entrance...

Even if some of you guys proposed

Pimelodus ornatus

which is quite a good idea too...

[sidguppy]

yes, but with P ornatus you had to add at least 4-5 fish; because of the larger Pimelodus species, this one is by far the most social

Aguarunichthys is fiercely territorial and does fine on its' own

[Arnaud Filleul]

Hi ElTofi,

Just one picture for you. I was checking your image of Pimelodus ornatus, and I realized that I caught this little guy in the rio Camaiu. I had totally forgotten this species, but I managed to find one picture. Here it is, just for you to see a wild specimen.

A bientot

Arnaud

[Firestorming]

I am not even in the same range of fish keeping as you guys, but I keep my 10 inch P. ornatus in a tank with some sailfins and a few clown loach rescues and so far (12 months) he has not touched any loaches, amazing fish who is gradually becoming more and more like a puppy with his excitemnt to see me. I would give them a +1 if you want a pim.

[ElTofi]

what I love most with the Pimelodidae, is their big barbels... I find it so cool and fascinating to observe...

I'm gonna hold on for a while with "acquiring new fishes", and I'll let time for the actual population... Except, of course, for the Astonotus I'll get this week-end (not a buy, just a gift... I can't reasonabily refuse, can I ?)

Why not Pimelodus ornatus, indeed... your picture is (as quite often) great, Arnaud... One of these days, I'll be obliged to meet you in a trip or IRL for sharing "fish addicted" moments...

[ducky]

what is the filteration system like? i only seen 1 pond filter on the top left corner.

im considering building something similar in not too distant future

[ElTofi]

well, filtration is a very important point.

Actually, I have 2 x Oase BioSmart Set 14000 (pond gravity filters) for biological and mechanical filtration. The filter pumps are 3500 l/h each, and burried under a 34 kgs volcano stones (pouzzolane), contributing to biological filtration. It's more than enough for the moment, as my fishes are juveniles... Nevertheless, I have to rince them every 4-5 weeks, if I want a good mechanical filtration.

Moreover, I vaccum the bottom of the tank every 2-3 days, cleaning the Panaque wastes, to avoid a ammonia concentration and not to load the filtration unnecessary... alltogether, it makes a 3x300 liters water changes a week. It takes me around 15 minutes each time (vaccum + refill).

For the near future, I intend to set up a big pool sand filter running 24/7, to increase the bio filtration mass. But first, I have to pay (again) for two LED Cree spots that I'll recieve in a few days. Then, during this summer, I'll set up the big pool sand filter.

A friend of mine, who has a "12 Stingrays + 20 Cichlas + 30 Myleus" 11'000 liters tank (overloaded ?), runs his tanks on big bio filtrations + part time "pool sand filter" (only for mechanical)

I guess I have to test a few solutions before finding The Right One ! Did anyone find a "how to do list" considering big tanks on the Net or elsewhere ?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Not sure if you switched topics or not with your last sentence/question but I've complied some stuff as far as building (not filtering) big tanks: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =4&t=33968

There is a plethora of examples of how to build large filters on MFK. Here is my humble input too (I do NOT recommend using a garbage toter - that's the main correction): http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... et+catfish

[ElTofi]

2 tests with a HD waterproof camera (GoPro Hero2). Let's dive into my tank...

need better light (I received my 140W, 6500 kelvin, 14'000 lumen LED spots yesterday. Need time to set them up) and pool sand filter to improve the quality of image... but still a good idea of what's going on...

[matthewfaulkner]

Nice videos, you can get a sense of the (colossal) scale of the tank. How are you moving the camera? Your arm in the water or attached to something?

[ElTofi]

simply fixed with "colson" plastic ligatures on a fish net handle... I was standing on my stool, on the front of the tank, leading the camera with the fish net handle... not that easy... especially when Arowanas, Cichlas and Myleus jump around to escape from this "predator"... I didn't insist too much on them...

but Stingrays and Panaque didn't give a damn to it...