L46 Zebra Pleco Breeding Group - Need help sexing them

[Aquatic Arts]

Hi everybody! This is my first post on this forum, but it definitely won't be the last. I've been "lurking" here for some time now and have found this website an incredible resource.

Okay, enough sucking up (no pun intended). I need some help sexing a breeding group of Zebra Plecos I am pretty sure I am going to buy. I already have a 75 gallon tank set up for them, and I'm super excited to try my hand at breeding them.



From my limited knowledge, I am guessing 4 males and 2 females. The 3 on the outside by themselves seem to all be males, and 2 of the 3 that are grouped together seem to be females. The one I'm not very sure of is the one that has some of its head under one of the females. It looks like it could go either way. They are about 5 years old. The seller is asking 2500 for the group, and I am willing to pay it IF you all think this is a reasonable price. If there are 3 females I would almost certainly buy them. I have already reserved them with a payment, but the seller says they do not know the m/f ratio and I am unsure if they actually know or not. I know I could start with juveniles much cheaper than this (About $120 each), but I don't want to wait 3 years to try and breed them.

So, my questions:

1. How many males/females do you think this group includes?
2. If there are 4 males and 2 females, is 2500 a reasonable price for them?
3. What is the going rate for a 4+ year old L46 female? Would trading 2 mature males for 1 mature female be reasonable?
4. If I sold two of the males, what is the going rate for a mature male?
5. How often do breeding groups like this come up for sale?

Thanks in advance for all the help! I am sure I will be asking a lot of questions as we move forward with our breeding project, but I'll try to read a lot before I ask anything "stupid".

[Raul-7]

1. I see 2 definite males; I think the one above the male on the left is also male. The 3 on the right grouped together all look to be female.
2. $400 per fish is pretty pricey; have they bred?
3. People rarely give up females; they are the breeders.
4. It's hard to find buyers for males; so what you buy it what you keep unless you sell them in groups.
5. Not often.

[Aquatic Arts]

Thanks for the info!

They have already bred several times, and are about 5 years old. Seems to be a good age to buy a breeding group at so I don't have to wait several years for the first spawn.

I know I can get them a lot cheaper as juveniles, but I am wanting to start with a group 4 years or older to bypass the long waiting period for spawning.

I am hoping that the 3 in the group on the right are all female. If that is the case, I am happy to pay what the seller is asking for them. Anyone else have some input on what gender those 3 grouped together are?

[ClearSky57]

I went the grow out route with my zebras.... I think I had them almost two years before my first babies.
and only was able to keep three babies alive to 3 months.
when you consider how much I have in the parents, It is a small consolation, but as everyone has told you.... no one sells females.
there are 4-6 males to every girl so it seems....
You said these have bred before, how many litters have they had and how regular and how many survived?

My experience (and it is nominal compared to some on here) is that they don't like being moved around, and no telling how
long it will take to get them back into a breeding mode....
I agree that 400+ per fish is a bit high, but you are buying breeding group, so you have to decide if that is worth it....
good luck..
david

[TwoTankAmin]

1. How many males/females do you think this group includes?
I do not sex them from above. There are only two ways I know for me to get reliable results. First, turn them over and vent them. Once they mature I can sex based on behavior better than body characteristics.

2. If there are 4 males and 2 females, is 2500 a reasonable price for them?
No. It is a gross over pricing, imo. In 2006, when finding proven groups was virtually impossible, I paid about 1/3 less with a better ratio of females. I got a 5 babies included and saw a number more dead ones that would also have been included.

3. What is the going rate for a 4+ year old L46 female? Would trading 2 mature males for 1 mature female be reasonable?
I would not make that trade. The nature of collecting wild plecos normally results in many more males than females. With tank raised fish this changes. Nobody in their right mind sells just females.

4. If I sold two of the males, what is the going rate for a mature male?
There are basically two types of zebra owners. Those who just wish to keep a fish or two and then those who want to try having them spawn. Usually the former doesn't care about the sex and the latter rarely wants males over females. An adult wild caught male would sell for something in the range of $180 -$200 maybe a tad more if somebody really wanted one.

5. How often do breeding groups like this come up for sale?
These days it is not anywhere near as rare as it used to be. If you are patient and you know where to to be looking, you can find them.

What is important to realize here is that just because a group is proven, there is no guarantee they will spawn for a new owner. Moreover, zebras have a habit of not spawning for extended periods. Most breeders have experienced this. When I got my group, my worry list looked like this:

1. Can I keep them all alive? It gets pricey losing them. If I keep them all alive and I fail to get spawns, I should be able to get all or most of my money back.
2. Will they spawn for me? There is no guarantee of this at all, even buying proven fish. Very experienced people have given up trying in frustration.
3. If they spawn for me, will I be successful in raising the fry? Plenty of folks have had a difficult time with them over the first few months.

One final comment here. 6 zebras is a small group, they do not need anything close to a 75 gal. Should you get let lucky and get free swimming fry, feeding them in such a large tank will be difficult as will be monitoring them. I put my initial group of 13 into a 30 gal. breeder tank- 36x18x13 inches. At the peak there were 53 assorted size offspring in with them, Despite this folks would usually ask me why I had a tank with no fish. I currently have a 75 gal. for f1 fish I have been trying to spawn for some time (no luck). The tank was just upped to 19 zebras- all old/large enough to spawn. I should add that I always use a ton of cover in pleco tanks.