Panaque sp L191 : let's go for a spawning tentative

[Jobro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK_fP4d0KXM

found a video from stephen huang. Looks like a really big wooden cave to me. Maybe even bamboo?

[CharlieM9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK_fP4d0KXM

found a video from stephen huang. Looks like a really big wooden cave to me. Maybe even bamboo?

It does! That was hard to see unless looking super close at the amazon as article. Good find Jobro!

[bekateen]

Going back to the question of which environmental cues are stimuli for spawning, what about intensity and turbulence of water current, or oxygenation levels? For my Panaqolus maccus, I wouldn't suggest that either of these is a "trigger" to spawn, but it's my impression that both (strong current and highly aerated water) are helpful conditions that encourage the fish to spawn in my P. maccus tank. I know Andy mentioned the direction of current in an earlier post in this thread, but I'm thinking more about intensity of current.

If you've explored these before and I just missed it earlier in the thread, forgive me for my ill-timing.

Cheers, Eric

[ElTofi]

no problem... I asked for help... I'm glad to recieve some...

I already tried a strong current together with high level of oxygen (8,000 l/h Tunze pump + 2 Venturi on the 2 Eheim Pro 3 filters, still in place). It helped on the odontodes growing rate...

but what is new to me is that now, I'm in direct contact (from yesterday) with Stephen Huang (The One Who Bred Panaque... at least twice...) And we're getting into serious matter, with informations on sexing, on behaviours, on feeding...

I'll get back to feed this topic as soon as I'll have something worth it... I'm trying to sex my individuals, on this "new" base.

feel free to go on submitting ideas or comparisons... it's all a good job for my project...

[Jobro]

Any progress?

Mind sharing the sexing information Huang gave you?

[ElTofi]

hi you all...

Today, I replaced the Panaque into the big tank (together with the P. schaeferi, Acanthicus, Osteoglossum, Cichlas, and so on)... mainly for 3 reasons :

1. After 6 months of non-stop efforts in water changes, feeding, parameters, roots, and so on, nothing happened, except the growing rate of odontodes...

2. I wasn't able to catch the 2 last Panaque L191 which were still in the big one, and I discovered these last weeks that they both were with huge odontodes (bigger than the ones I had placed in the "nursery")

3. I remember a discussion we had during the L-number days in Hannover a few weeks ago, saying that sometimes, all the stimulations are bullshit and you have to let a major change be the potential trigger...

and, most of all, my Astronotus sp "Peru" are spawning again and again in the big tank, with no chance to see a single fry or larvae as long as I have so many predators in this tank...

So, today, I took a 3-4 hours break of my family to empty the big tank at 15% level and catch those Astronotus... and replace the Panaque into the 900 liters tank... Big tank is still in "refill mode", but not too fast, as the tap water is quite cold in winter...

I shot a few pictures of my 5 big moustaches...

here they are :

fish one :


fish two :


fish three (the big moustache one) :


fish four :


fish five :




I admit 6 months are maybe not a long time enough for Panaques... but anyway, they have more place, more hiding places, more caves, and most of it, they found their 2 buddies again...

Let's see what happens... if anything does...

[ElTofi]

I realize I didn't give an answer on sexing them. As you may know, Stephen Huang showed me a few pictures and tricks. Even if admitted that both male and female develop interopercular odontodes, I'm pretty sure that fish 3 is a male.

Stephen showed me a picture of his L27 pair next to eachother. Male is much more higher and more massive, with a "shorter but larger nose". The odontodes, both pectoral/interopercular are much longer and thicker. And from above, the base (the roots of them) are much more wider than in females. Females show very strong opercular odontodes but shorter than males and almost nothing on pectorals. Of course on mature individuals.

Last tip : out of breeding season, there is nothing to see on odontode's growing. They simply desappear, kind of melting away

[rob rensen]

There is so much to discover about panaque's, that's part of the fun.

Nice specimens...great !!

[ElTofi]

to illustrate the sexing (courtesy of Stephen Huang) :



male is on the left... but you see that female also has big opercular odontodes... even if shorter and thiner than male