Building a wee fish room

doctorzeb · Post by **doctorzeb** » 02 Oct 2003, 15:47

Well the time has come, it has taken three and a half years and alot of begging, but I am finally going to be building a little fish room.

It will primarily be used as a "bringin on" room for fry and young, so it'll just be a simple affair.

The room is very small, in fact it's pretty much a cupboard, at 6ft x 3ft. The plan is to have 3 or four 3ft tanks at the back of the 3ft wall. One for fry, one for juveniles and one the other two for mature fish. (as my wife is very short the fourth tank wi be llup high for those fish I see but haven't told her I've bought!)

I'm a little worried about having a trickle filter set up and all the water mixing, so I was thinking more about individual internal filters and undergravel.

I have absolutely no idea about building a fish room, so any advice is appreciated. I'm very handy with pipework, welding etc, so anything goes.

ANy ideas, on anything at all, lighting, heating, filtration, aeriation, cleaning, RO units.

God I can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rob

magnum4 · Post by **magnum4** » 02 Oct 2003, 23:04

First things first take out a loan. You have to consider what you need most lots of little tanks or a few bigger ones or both. heating wise insulation is the key 2" all round helps a lot.

i'm not a fan of undergravel filters as they trap dirt and take longer to clean all tanks in my fish house are air power sponge filters and the tanks that need flow have additional power heads. you can never have two much air in my opinion as it gets used everywere things i didin't consider in my first fish house were; you use oxygen for back up filters when there is a large spawing, it gets used to hatch brine shrimp (takes more than you think), i use it to re-oxygenate both ro water and mix salt for a marine tank in the house, and when you set up extra hospital or quarantine tanks. oh and another thing if the one air pump goes off when your away on holiday (if it's gonna happen it will be when your away, something about sods law) your buggered. so after that lesson i've set up two filters in each tank each running off different pumps.

if the tanks arn't gonna have plants in then you might be able to get away with one strip light in the right position.

good luck with the new fish house what will you be stocking with?

Post by **Barbie** » 03 Oct 2003, 03:54

Will you just be using these new tanks to grow out fish? If they will be for fish you are going to be raising, they would greatly benefit from plumbing the tanks together. It keeps the water parameters much more stable, requires less in the way of pumps and heaters, and allows you to overstock the tanks somewhat, as long as you use a larger gallonage sump, such as an industrial sized garbage can in the corner or something of that sort. Central filtration sounds terribly daunting to consider when you're planning it, but its really not so hard at all.

Would you like to see plans or pictures of some other fish rooms to get design ideas? I realize you're looking at a limited space, but the time may come when you decide to get rid of that dining room table that's really just taking up space anyway *grin*

Barbie

doctorzeb · Post by **doctorzeb** » 03 Oct 2003, 09:40

Plans of existing fish rooms would be excellent barbie, cheers. My wife is sitting beside me right now rolling her eyes!!!!

So as most of the fish will be transfered from one tank to the other, combined filtration would probably be best. If so, am I best to get myself a huge ehiem (for example), or set up air-fed sponge filters, leading to a filtered holding tank?

ta

rob

doctorzeb · Post by **doctorzeb** » 14 Oct 2003, 19:59

OK

so here is my first (rather basic) attempt at central filtration. The idea is to reduce the amount of manual water changes required. hence the RO unit continually fed from the mains at a low flow rate and pressure. Alternatively a timed actuator valve. The outlets from the tank will be 1" MDPE with filter balls at the base to increase aeration.

Any ideas on the best way to heat this thing?

Have I made any huge blunders, or am I on the right track?

ta rob

magnum4 · Post by **magnum4** » 14 Oct 2003, 20:05

The ro unit does work more efficiently with a high pressure. you could use a shut off float valve, with a timed pump if you want to cut down on manual labour.

doctorzeb · Post by **doctorzeb** » 14 Oct 2003, 21:02

Keeping the pressure at mains i.e.3 bar, wouldn't be a problem. That way i would have constant water exchange in and out of the sump. Only major problem with that I think is the temp control.

How would the float valve on the timed pump work? I get how the ballcock, (float valve) would work, but what about the timed pump?

magnum4 · Post by **magnum4** » 15 Oct 2003, 00:05

you just have a seperate tank next to the sump that the ro unit fills and every 4 hours or whatever is required depending on sump and ro gpd, then you use a small timmed pump to empty the tank.

magnum4 · Post by **magnum4** » 15 Oct 2003, 00:12

devotedly discus has a well thought out centralised system. note prefilter/trickle tower.

http://www.devotedly-discus.co.uk/discu ... system.htm

Post by **Shane** » 15 Oct 2003, 02:30

Rob,
A few things to keep in mind...
My fishroom is also rather small at 9 feet by 6 feet. It was originally the maid's quarters, but I consolidated by getting a wife (Thank goodness Erica does not read the Forums!

)

Centralized heating is a good idea. I use a 1,500 watt room heater and like it a lot. The top tanks stay at 80F and the bottom tanks in the mid-70s (with the exception of the tank right next to the heater). You will find that the heat variation between the top and bottom levels work well as you can keep tropical piedmont catfishes or North American madtoms in the bottom tanks and lowland cats (like Orinoco or Amazon fishes) up high.

My recommendation would be to stay away from centralized filtration for several reasons.

1) It is a lot of work to build (although fun as well)
2) Disease! (enough said)
3) All tanks will be the exact same temp, stopping you from keeping several interesting catfishes.
4) They take up a lot of space that is key, especially if you only have a wee fishroom (rather have a 55 gallon tank or 55 gallon sump?)
5) Forget spawning anything since you can not modify the chemistry in one tank alone nor can you change the temp in one tank alone.

If you were raising/breeding nothing but Discus it would be a great system. However, what happens when tank #1 has ick, tank #2 has some Corydoras that you want to zap with cool water for a spawn and tank #3 has several Chaetostoma that need cooler water?

Another suggestion is to stay away from any and all air driven systems. I love sponge filters and the like but finally got rid of them all a couple of weeks ago. Air pumps all eventually get very loud and running the tubing all over gets old. Even a slightly noisey airpump will sound like a train in a tiny fishroom. It might work if you could keep a small blower outside, but then we are talking a fish house and not a small fishroom.

Use tight lids on all the tanks to keep the humidity at bay.

Use wrought iron for the stands as it takes up far less space than wood.

Keep your electric cords off the ground!

Some views of my fishroom. Barbie might just note a certain cave she gave me recently.

The ten right next to the heater stays pretty warm at around 82F.

Post by **Barbie** » 15 Oct 2003, 03:26

HAHAHA! And its in a top tank of honor too! How did the fish like it? And more importantly, did you find anyone that can make you some? If not, its not a big deal to get you some shipped down there

Your fish room looks so much more organized than my tanks spread all over the house!

*makes a mental note to file the Erica comment*

I had zero luck finding the site that had 4 or 5 drawings of the different types of set ups they were contemplating. The URL is permanently defunct it seems. I personally liked the central filtration systems, because I had other tanks to use for quarantining new fish, and it gave me that added volume that kept the water parameters stable. If you're just using them to grow out fry and breed zebra plecos in, a central system would work great, but Shane is right, if you want to add anything to it later on, it can make a serious wreck if something goes wrong.

With this said,someday I intend to build a rack at some point that holds 12 10 gallon tanks, plumbed together and running on one large sump, so I can raise more fry per tank without risking water quality. Someday would be the key word in that sentence, hehe.

Barbie

Ben · Post by **Ben** » 15 Oct 2003, 08:05

Ok, totally getting off topic of the origonal subject (really sorry! Some with the power may want to split this off...) but speaking of caves like that...One of my oldest and closest friends is a potter. He and I were discussing the interest in the fish community of having hand made pottery fish caves...if there IS really interest out there, we may be able to take some orders over the fall.

BTW I love the fish room Shane! That's a dream I have for when I build my house

Ben

Barbie wrote:HAHAHA! And its in a top tank of honor too! How did the fish like it? And more importantly, did you find anyone that can make you some? If not, its not a big deal to get you some shipped down there Your fish room looks so much more organized than my tanks spread all over the house!

doctorzeb · Post by **doctorzeb** » 15 Oct 2003, 09:45

Wow, Excellent site Magnum

SHane, amazing fish room. The room I'm using used to be the "gun cupboard in a old victorian house, although I 'm still trying to convince my lurvely wife to let me us the scullery which is 6 x 6.

I'm still confused about the centralised or not. My primary reason for the fish room is for Zebras, as it stands, I have about 40 fry and another spawn is on the way. I will have 4 30" x12" x 18"wide tanks, three of which would be off the centralised, and one with an internal.

My main reason for the centralised system was to keep the parameters identical for switching fish between tanks. My existing tanks in the livingroom would continue to be the spawning tanks.

I guess, I could have seperate filtrarion with internals, and use Magnums idea of a pumped / timed ro sump, to do partial water changes.

I guess the major problem however will be space. Boll*cks, I'll have to keep sweet talking my wife!

Post by **Shane** » 15 Oct 2003, 13:58

Rob,
Very much up to you. Just keep in mind the cost/labor of a centralized filtration system. H. zebra is not the most prolific fish, so it is not like you are going to have 300-400 fry around at all times.

Most people I know that raise lots of fry use separate filters with a spare 55 gallon garbage can hooked up to an RO unit. That way they always have good water on hand and can easily do 10-20% water changes daily.

Barbie, I love the cave. Can you contact me about sending more...please! My suggestion to Ben is that you have your friend make a bunch and you start seling them on the web. These things are great for many cats. My only gripe is that they are orange. Could they be colored brown when fired? I found a potter but the potter was an artist and wanted a silly amount of money for each piece. I explained that they were not art and were simply fish caves. Needless to say she was not interested in making them after learning their purpose. I would also love some tubes for Rineloricaria and some vertical tubes like I make from bamboo. Look at some of the caves in Ingo's article about spawning loricariids for ideas.
-Shane

doctorzeb · Post by **doctorzeb** » 15 Oct 2003, 18:46

Well, Got to say, didn't think it would be that easy. I am now building my fishroom next to the livingroom in the old scullery. It's 10ft x 6ft, with water drainage and electricity. Ooooooh luxury!
Shane...got to say cheers.

I showed Jen the pics of your room and she was suitabley impressed, and decided that I could go ahead with it!!!

SO now the space isn't a problem. I think I will end up going for individually filtered tanks then, with a timed pumped supply from a RO tank. The tanks will all be fitted with an overflow, so, once a day, a small amount of RO water will disperse the existing water. Only thing then is that I will have to keep an eye on the pH.

happy happy joy joy!!!

magnum4 · Post by **magnum4** » 15 Oct 2003, 19:04

Shane nice fish room, I hope to be allowed more than four tanks in the house one day. whats the black lighting system i can see, looks bright?

Keep your electric cords off the ground!

look where your electric cords are are.

I would love to use power filters because of the noise and replacement of diaphragms ect however the fry i have are just too delicate.

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 15 Oct 2003, 23:55

From someone with 80+ aquaria to play with, I think that dual filtration may be the best method if you are having any number of aquaria, otherwise stick with individual filtration. A central system has to have the option of isolating any single aquarium when bringing in new fish, it's not enough just to rely on UV unless you're prepared to throw some serious money at it.
Should you decide to go with central filtration be aware that such a system with any kind of throughput can be extremely noisy in a domestic setting, more so than a couple of decent air pumps.
Pete

Ben · Post by **Ben** » 16 Oct 2003, 08:39

I'll be seeing him tomorrow, and he just finished his busy summer tourist season, so I'll see if he is still keen on the idea. I'll print some stuff off to take with me. The can really be made any colour when Fired Shane, as they can be glazed. Glasin them would make them much more stain resistant also. He usues to colours of clay as his base, the red that you see on yours is a "stoneware" and he usues a "porcoline" that is white. However either one can be easily glazed.

If he is up for it, I'll take my digital cam, get some pics of him making them, and each step of the way, to add the personal feel for the product....maybe we can get rich!!!...or not ;)

Sorry, as a P.S. trid finding Ingo's article, but couldn't track it down

is it on the site, or on the forum?

Shane wrote: My suggestion to Ben is that you have your friend make a bunch and you start seling them on the web. These things are great for many cats. My only gripe is that they are orange. Could they be colored brown when fired? I found a potter but the potter was an artist and wanted a silly amount of money for each piece. I explained that they were not art and were simply fish caves. Needless to say she was not interested in making them after learning their purpose. I would also love some tubes for Rineloricaria and some vertical tubes like I make from bamboo. Look at some of the caves in Ingo's article about spawning loricariids for ideas.
-Shane

Post by **Shane** » 16 Oct 2003, 18:47

Magnum, I am not sure what black light you are seeing? The racks are lit by shop lights. Each shop light contains two 4 foot 40 watt bulbs. And yes, I need to get my cords off the ground. Ben, I look forward to seeing the pics.
-Shane

doctorzeb · Post by **doctorzeb** » 16 Oct 2003, 19:20

The cave are brilliant Ben, I've seen some on Aquabid, sold with some zebra's. UNfortunately aquabid doesn't really apply to the UK. Fancy shipping some over, how about a franchise!!!

Well I think I've made my descision. I will have 4 3ft long by 15" high, by 18" wide tanks. All with seperate filtration, but combined timed water changes from the RO tank, and drilled overflows. The bottom tank will be for young fry, seperated into two halfs for different batches.

Two of the other tanks will be for increasingly mature fish, and the fourth tank will be for whatever the hell I feel like! Maybe a few LDA01's.

The heating will be standard triton's etc, and there is no real need for lighting, apart from maybe the top tank.

I like your frames Shane, so I'll probaly make mine out of angle. God it's all so much easier having a larger room, with all the needed amenities!!!

Anyone got any comments on RO Filters?

Only wish I could get started tomorrow. The deal for the new room (permission given from the wife), is that I need at least 2 more spawns......hmmmmm.

Cheers everyone...

Ben, .......any ideas on roughly how much the caves are? I woudl be interested in getting some shipped.

ta

rob

Ben · Post by **Ben** » 20 Oct 2003, 04:29

Well, as for cost, we are still working that out. This weekend we started to make some of the designs, and it is going very well. We have several examples created. They are still in early stage of creating, after the actual potting, you must wait about 3 weeks for them to dry before the firing and glazing. I took lots of pics during the first 2 days of work. Have a look and please PM me with any questions. I'll be posting a topic on the Buy & Sell and will start taking orders right away. If anyone wants to make advanced orders, send me a PM of what you are looking for, and I can get back to you with a firm price.

Have a look @ http://www.corydorasworld.com/planetcat ... y/album121
proper website coming soon

Ben

doctorzeb wrote:The cave are brilliant Ben, I've seen some on Aquabid, sold with some zebra's. UNfortunately aquabid doesn't really apply to the UK. Fancy shipping some over, how about a franchise!!!

doctorzeb wrote: Ben, .......any ideas on roughly how much the caves are? I woudl be interested in getting some shipped.

doctorzeb · Post by **doctorzeb** » 07 Jan 2004, 12:22

Well it's back on the cards. The fishroom is going ahead, but with some slight changes.

The header tank in the loft is existing, but the rest of the house is now fed off the mains. Therefore the tank only feeds the fish room. The idea is that the water will sit long enough in the tank for the chlorine to dissipate. Then just in case there's a problem, I have carbon pads in the tank. The water for the fishroom will be gravity fed to an actuator valve that will open on a timer and release about 12 litres into each tank. There is obviously an overflow on each tank as well.

Does this seem viable?

The only problem I see is that the water entering the tanks is not heated, due to the small amount however I am hoping this will not reduce the temp dramatically.

I have decided to stay away from an RO unit as the water chemisty here (in the middle of nowhere) is actually quite good for what I need.

cheers guys, and happy new year again!!!!!!!!!

rob