hybridization b/w elegans group species

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hybridization b/w elegans group species

Post by bedwetter » Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:01 am

I have a trio of C. napoensis housed with 2 females of another elegans group species (I have been told they are an undescribed species). Anyway, the napoensis are looking like they might spawn soon - one ofthe females is incredibly fat. Will the elegans group species hybidize? If so, should I move the other species into another tank?

thanks in advance

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Post by corybreed » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:32 pm

The elegans can hybridize with the napoensis. I would separate the two species if you want to breed the napoensis. As you are interested in breeding corys it is better to keep species tanks for this purpose.

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Post by Starsky » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:25 am

corybreed wrote:The elegans can hybridize with the napoensis. I would separate the two species if you want to breed the napoensis. As you are interested in breeding corys it is better to keep species tanks for this purpose.

Mark
This is such an eye-opener. I have not thought about hybridization among cories. I just assumed they'd stick to their own kind. :? I would definitely be reading up on this. Thanks, Mark. This is really a terrific forum. 8)

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Post by MatsP » Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:34 am

Starsky wrote:This is such an eye-opener. I have not thought about hybridization among cories. I just assumed they'd stick to their own kind. :? I would definitely be reading up on this. Thanks, Mark. This is really a terrific forum. 8)
They may well stick to their own kind, but if you have several kinds in the same tank, they may also get into a "group-sex" situation where everyone has a go with each other, and you get all sorts of "mongrels". Better to keep them one specie per tank, at least if you want to breed them.

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Post by Starsky » Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:40 pm

Thanks for the tip, Mats. The idea of mongrels does sound a bit disturbing. I am already thinking of getting new tanks over the weekend. Don't want my caudimaculatus and schwartzi to get crazy ideas. :shock:

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Post by mummymonkey » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:26 pm

This fish is an axelrodi x metae.
hybrid1.jpg
Last edited by mummymonkey on Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by MatsP » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:38 pm

That's a nice looking fish, but we don't really need any more varieties of cory, there's plenty of already existing varieties, and they are difficult enough to tell apart in some cases, without having mixed species in the equation.

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Post by mummymonkey » Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:33 pm

MatsP wrote:That's a nice looking fish, but we don't really need any more varieties of cory, there's plenty of already existing varieties, and they are difficult enough to tell apart in some cases, without having mixed species in the equation.

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It was an accident.

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Post by MatsP » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:40 am

mummymonkey wrote:It was an accident.
Yes, and that's the reason we shouldn't keep different species of cory's in the same tank. Which is the reason I posted on this thread in the first place. Accidents happen, but in this case they can be prevented pretty easily... Just don't have mixed species of corydoras in the tank!

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Post by Coryman » Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:05 am

I've not made coment in this thread, mainly because I do get a little passionate on the subject of hybridisation. But I feel a few things need saying from a front line view instead of just theorising. I have been keeping and breeding Corys and related species for over 30 years and have never experienced and hybridising at all, and yes in several tank I do keep several species together. Keeping in the context of the topic I do have a group of C. elegans, a group of C. napoensis and a group of an undescribed 'elegans' species all in the same tank, also there are a further four speces in there. The undescribed 'elegans' species usually spawn after a 50% water change and none of the other species take any interest at all. So I would say with confidence that as long as there are males and females of both species your C. napoensis and C. elegans will NOT interbreed.

We all know that crossbreeding does occur, but there are relatively few species that are suseptable and these are usually with species that are prety much isolated in the wild and the genetic barriers of these species are not as strong as with species that share the same habitat with others. From what I have seen and read these crossbreedings happen when there are only a few specimens of different species kept together. I normally buy my Corys in groups of six or more and I believe this is why I don't see any cross breeding.

Ian
Last edited by Coryman on Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by MatsP » Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:29 am

Thanks Ian for the explanation.

I do not have 30 years experience in breeding fish, never mind any particular genus or family. [I have kept fish for almost 20 years in total, with about a ten year gap until fairly recently].

So, what you're saying is that with a few exceptions, as long as you keep a decent size group of the same specie, other species are unlikely to interbred with this specie.

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Post by mummymonkey » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:07 pm

MatsP wrote:
mummymonkey wrote:It was an accident.
Yes, and that's the reason we shouldn't keep different species of cory's in the same tank. Which is the reason I posted on this thread in the first place. Accidents happen, but in this case they can be prevented pretty easily... Just don't have mixed species of corydoras in the tank!

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I think that's a worthy aim but unrealistic for most people. If I were to restrict my tanks to single species I would only be able to keep 2 or 3. I keep several species in a couple of tanks. When I want to try and breed them they go into their own smaller tank. I think this is reasonable. Any eggs that appear in the larger tank are left to be eaten.

These fish came from a friend who has a tank with both axelrodi and metae. The fry appeared in the main tank and seemed to be pure metae so he let them be. As they grew, some began to show axelrodi type markings as in the photograph. They now reside in a planted tank of another friend. They're not doing any harm by just scooting around a display tank.

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Post by bedwetter » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:18 pm

mummymonkey, I think thats a good comprimise. I have decided to follow your lead and move the napoensis into their own tank for breeding. Better safe than sorry!
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get a big group of either the napoensis or the other elegans-grp species because they both came in as contaminants in a shipment of delphax.

thanks everyone for the comments. Now if I could only get that fat female napoensis to lay some bloody eggs!

jeff

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Post by catfish_cz » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:15 pm

Crossbreeding of Corydoras

in the nature:

C. leopardus x C. ambiacus


in the captivity:

C. adolfoi x C. caudimaculatus
C. adolfoi x C. gossei
C. adolfoi x C. melini
C. araguaiaensis x C. axelrodi
C. arcuatus x C. metae
C. axelrodi x C. adolfoi
C. axelrodi x C. metae
C. burgessi x C. adolfoi
C. burgessi x C. metae
C. burgessi x C. axelrodi
C. davidsandsi x C. adolfoi
C. davidsandsi x C. burgessi
C. davidsandsi x C. panda
C. oiapoquensis x C. panda
C. paleatus (albín) x C. melanotaenia
C. panda x C. caudimaculatus
C. sterbai x C. haraldschultzi

And maybe this (?):

C. axelrodi - C. loxozonus - C. melini
C. trilineatus x C. metae


It is better to keep them separately.

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Post by Starsky » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:34 am

This list is very helpful. I was supposed to ask about this. thanks, catfish_cz!

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Post by Coryologist » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:48 pm

catfish_cz wrote:Crossbreeding of Corydoras

in the nature:

C. leopardus x C. ambiacus


in the captivity:

C. adolfoi x C. caudimaculatus

- Quote edited by Guppyman®

And maybe this (?):

C. axelrodi - C. loxozonus - C. melini
C. trilineatus x C. metae


It is better to keep them separately.
Hi. Would you mind stating the source for this list. TYVM. - Frank

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Post by catfish_cz » Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:17 pm

This book:

http://www.akvarista.cz/web/knihy/genpi ... hanel1.jpg

"Akvaristika - Biologie a chov vodních živočichů (I. obecná část)"

Published: Charles University, Prague, Karolinum ,2002
Author: RNDr. Lubomír HANEL, CSc (Department of Biology, Faculty of Education, Charles University)

ISBN: 80-24-0413-2
Pages: 240
Format: 210 x 297 mm

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Post by Coryologist » Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:09 pm

catfish_cz wrote:This book: "Akvaristika - Biologie a chov vodních živo?ich? (I. obecná ?ást)" - Quote edited by Guppyman®
Thank you. Now, I will need to "brush up" on my Czech. An english translation of the title would, too, be greatly appreciated. :-) - Frank

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Post by catfish_cz » Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:33 am

Akvaristika - Biologie a chov vodních živočichů (I. obecná část)
is in English "Biology and keeping/breeding of water animals (first part)".

The word "akvaristika" means keeeping and breeding of water animals and plants in aquarium.

Which word is used in English language for this hobby?

:?:

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Post by mummymonkey » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:08 am

catfish_cz wrote:Akvaristika - Biologie a chov vodních živočichů (I. obecná část)
is in English "Biology and keeping/breeding of water animals (first part)".

The word "akvaristika" means keeeping and breeding of water animals and plants in aquarium.

Which word is used in English language for this hobby?

:?:
Aquaculture would be close.

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