"Barking" Hara Hara (moth catfish)

Naias · Post by **Naias** » 27 Aug 2005, 16:07

Hi everybody,

I really do hope there is an expert here who does not think I am crazy or so because it is really true:

IÂ´ve had four little Hara Hara (moth catfish) for two weeks now (at least I bought them as Hara Hara, I just saw on the net that there are several similar species)

They are real weird - they sometimes kind of "bark" and you can really hear that when sitting in front of the aquarium!

Especially one of the four does it. If it meets another one they swim around each other for several times and then it follows the other one for a short time and makes these barking noises like a little dog - tiny but you can hear it!

Is there someone who can tell me something about this behaviour because IÂ´ve found nothing anywhere in the net???

Many thanks!!!

Post by **Silurus** » 27 Aug 2005, 16:14

Erethistids can stridulate ("bark") because they have a stridulatory apparatus located at the base of the dorsal spine. The sound comes from two bony surfaces that have ridges on them rubbing against each other.

Naias · Post by **Naias** » 27 Aug 2005, 16:26

Hi Silurus,

thank you for your fast (!) reply. (Ok....Now I have to look up a few words in the dictionary...first in an English-German and than in a German-German one...

). I can see HERE are the REAL experts!!!

But I am also very much interested in what that (in my eyes) bizarre behaviour means. Is it agressive or does it belong to some mating ritual or what?

Post by **Silurus** » 27 Aug 2005, 16:30

Generally, catfishes stridulate either when they are stressed (e.g. in the presence of a predator, or behaving aggressively towards conspecifics), or during mating.

djw66 · Post by **djw66** » 27 Aug 2005, 21:20

Its interesting how many of our fish can 'vocalize', and one wonders exactly why they do it. I used to keep groups of different species of Botia, and when food hit the water, they'd start 'clicking' like crazy. Were they excited about the food? Broadcasting to other Botia there was food? Competing for the food? Who knows? Sound travels so much further in water, I wonder if they click in the wild as well.

I've always wondered how Botia click, perhaps something to do with their sub-ocular spines? Opinions?

Dave

Post by **medaka** » 27 Aug 2005, 23:44

Moth cats especially the males often engage in aggression towards one another, give them plenty of places to hide and you probably will only see this aggression when they are feeding.

ramblin man · Post by **ramblin man** » 28 Aug 2005, 03:50

I had some botias and always thought the clicking noise was them bashing in to the side of the tank when they chashed each other. And boy did they chase at times.

You learn something new every day here!

djw66 · Post by **djw66** » 28 Aug 2005, 06:34

I never had difficulty with Botia chasing each other, probably because I kept six or more of a species, and there were (are) plenty of hiding places. Even B. modesta showed no agression when in a group of eight of its fellows. I'd usually keep two species per tank (over 100 US gallons) and never observed a touch of agression between con-specifics.

Hence the puzzle at the motive for clicking.

When frozen bloodworms, tubifex or white worms hit the water, the Botia would erupt from their hiding place and the clicking would begin, so fast it sounded like static on a radio.

And I've never read or heard how they click.

Dave

Naias · Post by **Naias** » 28 Aug 2005, 12:42

Hi,

thanks for all your answers!

@medaka
thank you for the link. It was interesting. Temperatures should not be the problem. The tank is unheated and the room is shadowy (does this word exist?) and doesnÂ´t get too hot in summer...

But I have quite a lot of water movement (the tank has kind of a cool Asian river theme...), maybe it is too much...but so far the fish and the shrimp seem to like it (besides the hara there are 8 Tanichthys albonubes and about 20 shrimp in the tank).

Well, I rather think the "barking" has do do with courtship behaviour than with agression. There are many hiding places (tank size: 80 cm x 40 cm x 40 cm), a root, stones, caves, but especially those two hara seem to like to be in each otherÂ´s company...

@djw66
there is a German site where it says that the clicking might be stridulation with the help of the swim bladder or the "Weberian apparatus" Here a link in case youÂ´ve never heard of the latter (like me)

http://www.fishbase.org/Glossary/Glossa ... 0apparatus

Is there a possiblity to upload photos from your computer???

worton[pl] · Post by **worton[pl]** » 28 Aug 2005, 15:03

I'm setting up a rivertank the same in size as your Naias.
I think about put there some shrimps too. What exactly power got your powerheads? Mine will filtrate water in a tank 16x/h :] I worry a little about shrimps :). What species you keep? Other tankmates will be balitoridae family
and maybe hara or akysis if it's not too much current for them and if i will be able to find them in Poland :].

Regards.

Post by **Silurus** » 28 Aug 2005, 15:55

Some shrimps may not coexist with the catfish.

For instance, Akysis will eat Caridina if given the opportunity.

Naias · Post by **Naias** » 28 Aug 2005, 16:24

worton[pl] wrote:I'm setting up a rivertank the same in size as your Naias.
I think about put there some shrimps too. What exactly power got your powerheads? Mine will filtrate water in a tank 16x/h :] I worry a little about shrimps . What species you keep? Other tankmates will be balitoridae family
and maybe hara or akysis if it's not too much current for them and if i will be able to find them in Poland :].

Regards.

Hello

,
about Akysis I know nothing and I am not experienced yet with Hara, too, but I feel that they should not have "competitors" at the bottom. However, I am thinking about some fish of the balitoridae, for example, Gastromyzon, too, as further tankmates.

I have a simple foam filter (Sera), which has a max. power of 400 l/h. But it doesnÂ´t run on max. power, maybe half power, I do not know exactly, but there is quite a current...

What do you mean exactly with "16x/h"? I am not much of a technics freak, but it seems very much to me. But maybe other people can give you advice on that.

The shrimps I keep are Neocaridina denticulata sinensis (variation red and normal) and they get along really fine with the Hara and the Tanichthys albonubes.

But, of course, you can not keep every kind of fish together with them. You have to inform yourself really well whether the fish you want to keep are ok for shrimps. I think small balitoridae should be no problem with the shrimps but I have not really investigated the subject so far.

worton[pl] · Post by **worton[pl]** » 28 Aug 2005, 17:40

Hiya,

well I was thinking about powerheads able to pump 16x volume of a tank per hour :).
I guess that it's too much for shrimps anyway :) I just wanted to know your filtration power :).
What do you think about akysis and hara in so strong current Silurus and others? Will they do fine or it's too much?

Regards.

Post by **Silurus** » 28 Aug 2005, 17:45

Akysis do better in strong currents than Hara (if you provide enough crevices for them to hide amongst). Hara prefer slower flow, and areas of dense vegetation.

Naias · Post by **Naias** » 30 Aug 2005, 16:27

Hello again,
so I finally worked out (with some help) how to show you photos of my haras (medaka asked for them). The photos show two of them, the third is a little bit smaller and not so "striped", more greyish. The fourth one I have not seen the last few days, I am afraid it did not make it

. This one was very skinny from the beginning and darker (much black). But the other three seem to feel more comfortably every day. They are now quite active also during the day and are also venturing in free water and in the current from time to time.

Can someone confirm that they are indeed hara hara?

Sorry, I donÂ´t know why the photos are not displayed but you can copy the URL pointing to the image and paste it in the address window of the browser.

Post by **medaka** » 30 Aug 2005, 22:57

Can someone confirm that they are indeed hara hara?

No they are not Hara hara.
I have these and the pectoral spines are divergent. Therefore they are an Erethistes 'sp' & not a Hara. But their husbandry is the same

Naias · Post by **Naias** » 02 Sep 2005, 15:58

Hi,
thank you medaka. Is there anything special about "Erethistes sp." (I didnÂ´t find anything about this species) which I should know in order to keep them? Are there many differences to Hara hara?

And I have also good knews: I saw the fourth one yesterday in the late evening and today it even came out in the morning for feeding.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 02 Sep 2005, 16:11

Naias wrote:Hi,
thank you medaka. Is there anything special about "Erethistes sp." (I didnÂ´t find anything about this species) which I should know in order to keep them? Are there many differences to Hara hara?

And I have also good knews: I saw the fourth one yesterday in the late evening and today it even came out in the morning for feeding.

If medaka says that "The husbandry is the same", I think that means that there isn't any differnece in keeping Hara Hara or Erethistes sp.

--
Mats

Post by **medaka** » 02 Sep 2005, 21:54

Yep care is the same, on the differences most books don't have anything on how to tell what is a Hara and what is a Erethistes by visual means alone, you might find this thread interesting regarding Identification of these Asian mothcats; and problems with their ID's:frown:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... sc&start=0