Can Otos live with BN Plecos?

moonbunny · Post by **moonbunny** » 10 Sep 2005, 22:49

Hi,

I have a 20 gal. long that's having a problem with diatom algae. I've graciously been offered BN Plecos to help with the problem, but I just wanted to be sure they'd get along with my Oto, Nila. In the tank right now, there are 6 Platys and one Oto.

Tank specs are as follows:
Penguin 200 filter
40 watts lighting
Lightly planted--Java moss, Saggitaria (I think), Llimnophilia indica and Hygrophilia polysperma.
Temp: 80 F

Water:
Carbonate hardness:75
Ph:7.8-8.0
Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrate: 0

I thought I read where BN's don't get on well with anybody who is too closely related to them--that's why I'm asking, but with such a generous offer I'd like to know as soon as possible so that I can let the person who is offering know what I'm thinking.

Thanks! I appreciate the info.

Post by **Shane** » 11 Sep 2005, 06:12

Moonbunny,
It is not really a question of them getting along. The problem is that most Ancistrus will easily out bully, because of their shear size, the Otocinclus for food. Otos are happiest in schools. Why not try 3-4 more to get the algae under control?
-Shane

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 11 Sep 2005, 10:44

While i completely agree with shane that more ottos are your best choice, I see no problem with with ottos and ancistrus together. I have them both in a planted 15g, and they get along famously. Once all the algae's gone (if it ever goes

), make sure you feed enough to keep them both happy. I give my ottos curly kale, which the ancistrus doesn't seem too keen on for some reason.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 12 Sep 2005, 15:16

I've found that Otos are comfortable in a pH of 6.8-7.0 and a temperature of 75 degrees F. Has anybody else had success with Otos at a higher pH and temperature? I have 10 Otos in with a territorial Peckoltia in a 75 gallon tank. The Otos share the same food as the Peckoltia. But, the Otos get seconds and they go in as a unified front to get it.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 12 Sep 2005, 15:36

If your peckoltia is anything like mine [which may, or may not, be the case], it should be much more interested in "meaty" food than the Oto's. Peckoltia's are omnivore's, Oto's are herbivores. Bristlenoses are also herbivores, so there's more chance of them actually eating [or wanting to, at least] at exactly the same place if there's algae in the tank. Since bristlenoses grow MUCH bigger than Oto's, the bristlenose _WILL_ win any "fight" over who's going to eat a particular morsel of food. They won't kill each other, but the bristlenose needs to be well-fed for the Oto's to get a chance.

The diets of the different fish, of course, doesn't mean that the Oto's aren't going to try to eat the some more meaty stuff, it that's what the Peckoltia gets [Shane expressed it as "Some of us much rather eat pizza instead of salad, even if we know that it's not good for us"].

--
Mats

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 13 Sep 2005, 14:17

He's an L-147. I've tried the meaty foods. He seems to have very little interest, almost like an Oto. Even when I tried them with garlic-type extracts. He'll pick one or two worms and leave the rest. The same with shrimp. They're in the tank quite often for the Cories and Tetras. I take the time to observe and he leaves them alone. When I tried the veggies and fruits....

He was rasping on my hand before I could let go of the zucchini (courgette)the other day. Easy, boy!

moonbunny · Post by **moonbunny** » 13 Sep 2005, 22:11

I'm starting to think Otos might be the best way to go for the long term, but how can I safely and consistantly lower the Ph in my tank?

moonbunny · Post by **moonbunny** » 14 Sep 2005, 04:36

Can a herd of Otos (say 5-7) clean as much algae as a bristle nose pleco?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 14 Sep 2005, 09:52

Oto's can eat a lot of algae, if there's many enough of them. It's just a case of having the right number. 5-7 will eat as much, if not more, as a bigger bristlenose. But of course, a HUGE (5"+) bristlenose will eat more than 5 small Oto's...

Both of these fish are grazers, so they like to eat 24/7...

As to lowering your pH: You don't have much hardness in the water, assuming your hardness is in ppm. My thinking is that you have some alcalic water supply. You could just add some acid of some sort, either by natural means (peat for example), or by using a chemical, such as hydrochloric acid. Unfortunately, both of these methods require much more effort than you'd think... Adding hydrochloric acid isn't very difficult, but getting the right amount is...

Using reverse osmosis or otherwise de-ionized water would be another workable way, combined with some suitable method of lowering the pH, such as peat, bogwood or similar.

[Looking at your water conditions: I don't for a minute believe that you have 0 Nitrate. Not unless you have LOTS of plants and no fish... Make sure your test-kit is still working OK (perhaps take a water-sample to your LFS and have them check it. If it's non-zero, you'll need to get a new test-kit for Nitrate).]

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 14 Sep 2005, 13:34

is your pH really 8.0?

I ask because when i used to use those chemical indicator tests, the colour always came out to look like about 8.0, but since i got a digital pH meter, i found out the tapwater is actually 7.5.

If you don't have a digital meter, phone up your water supplier and ask them what the pH is.

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 14 Sep 2005, 17:12

1) IMO it is not a good idea to mix otos with ancistrus. The ancistrus are far more aggressive feeders, and will tend to outcompete the otos for the supplementary feeding they will likely _need_. Unless you can find some food which the otos but not the ancistrus will eat, which seems unlikely to me.

2) Otos are not pH sensitive. Seriously. I've held O. flexilis and O. vittatus in everything from 4.5 (which _wasn't_ a good idea) to 8.3 (which worked just fine). Unless you're going to breed them, a pH of 8 is fine. You always need to be careful with rapid changes in conductivity, though.

3) Otos don't seem particularly temperature sensitive either. The most common smaller otos come from the interior of amazonas, where it's plenty warm, and from personal experience I know that even O. flexilis can live for years at 27-29 celsius (but despite efforts I've not got them to breed - possibly the flexilis needs cold winters).

IMHO otos are difficult for one reason and one reason alone: feeding.

They don't eat all types of algae, so unless you have a large planted tank where there's always various algae and rotting vegetation, they'll need supplementary feeding. Even then they will not fight/compete for the food, and they wont necessarily accept all types of supplementary feeding either. For instance I've found they wont touch vegetables until they start to go really soft & mushy & decompose, when most aquarist would already have removed the veggie.
Plus, when you buy them they have more than likely starved for weeks, which is not good for herbivorous fish so that adds to their sensitivity.

I like otos, I'm very interested in them and have been quite successful in keeping them, but all in all I rate otos as difficult fish. Definitely far more difficult than common ancistrus, and not necessarily better at eating algae. Get otos because you're interested in otos. If you just want something to eat algae, get common ancistrus.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 14 Sep 2005, 17:49

That's very helpful information, Mike. Thank you very much. If I wanted to breed the Otos I have, what would be the best course of action? A separate, well planted tank? I love smaller species and absolutely adore Otos!

I'd love to set up a habitat for them to breed. I don't know what the parameters are. Any assistance would be most appreciated.

j4782 · Post by **j4782** » 15 Sep 2005, 05:11

If you want to get some tips on breeding otos, try otocinclus.com. The most recent update says that otos are not naturally found with protein in their stomachs.

metallhd · Post by **metallhd** » 15 Sep 2005, 21:14

Hi all - well I hate to be the voice of dissent but . . . I have two full grown male albino bristlenose in a 33 gallon tank which as the previous post mentioned is full of various algae and rotting vegetation although I do try to keep it clean. They share the tank with a horde of platys I would love to get rid of and three quite large otos (~ 3 cm), and are not territorial so much even with each other - they both spend the day hanging under a big log, and they rest side by side . . .

BTW - I am happy new pappy of at least 2 little c. pygmaeus, happy little accidents after a move from a 5G to a 10

Also - have a brand new tank with 3 prize species, c. julii (which I just read in another post may actually be c. trilineatus). I got 4 of them, also 4 c. arcuatus (score!!

), and finally the mystery species of the week, 4 of something called c. Punctatious (sic). They look nothing like "punctuatus". nor do they look a whole lot like my quite similar c. brevirostris. I am starting to think they may be c. leucomelas, but I should be able to post some pics as an edit shortly.

C yaz !

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 16 Sep 2005, 15:06

Thanks, j4782!

Can Otos live with BN Plecos?

Can Otos live with BN Plecos?

Probably otos if I can figure out how to lower Ph?