Visible differences between L27 "gold line" and L190

[jamos]

As stated above.

What is the easiest way tell these two apart? Are there any major physical differences?

Thanks

[matthewfaulkner]

The common name, gold line, is a bit ambiguous as I've seen it used for all varieties of Panaque armbrusteri. It seems most commonly used for

Panaque cf_armbrusteri`araguaia`

. From what I've seen (which isn't that much) they are quite similar to

Panaque nigrolineatus

differing mainly with colour and pattern, and it's my belief that Panaque cf. armbrusteri 'araguaia' would be more accurately described as Panaque cf. nigrolineatus 'araguaia'.

If you have pictures of a fish you're trying to identify then I'm happy to have a stab at it.

[jamos]

Thanks for the info

What do you mean by diffinering in pattern and colour?

Thanks

[matthewfaulkner]

I would describe Panaque nigrolineatus as grey (but variable from white/grey to dark grey) with horizontal black stripes and Panaque cf. armbrusteri 'araguaia' as yellow (but variable from yellow/brown to gold) with horizontal black stripes. The pattern of 'araguaia' seems to consist of finer/more lines along the fish and also can develop into dense squiggles whereas P. nigrolineatus have fewer/thicker lines.

They share a similar body shape and teeth layout. As normal, juveniles can be difficult to differentiate but as they grow it becomes easier.

[jamos]

Thats what I was thinking but some of the pics in Cat-elog are a little confusing.

Which Panaque would you say had the greenish colour (not L191)?

http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewto ... 23&t=57849

Thanks

[MatsP]

The fish in the link above look like Brazilian fish, so P. armbrusteri or close relative.

The Colombian/Venezuelan variety can sometimes look quite green, like in this picture:


--
Mats

[megacat]

418 is a green fish very bright when young a can fade out as they grow large 12"+ some even keep the very nice green when their really big 18"+. 330 would follow but I find they lose the green at about 14"+
190 can vary from greyishgreen to greenishyellow. 191 can vary as wel but IME they're very grey and have a dull colour to them. I've seen some young 191( 1"-4" tl ) can have a greenish tone to them even a greenish yellow tone.

L-27c Panaque cf. armbrusteri`araguaia`  can be dull like 191 when young but from the 6 I've seen only one was really dull when young was sort of ugly to be honest. The rest were light greenish yellow. I've seen other young araguaia look dull but these were on the Internet on some east Asian fish stores.

This is the ugly duckling grown up. He was juggled around twice and I ended up buying it back for my younger brother I think last new years.

Here is a picture that was taken not too long ago of him. Doesn't look like any 190 I've ever seen except for the mouth as which has slight differences like Matthewfualkner has mentioned in his previous post.



The above is my experices with them that I'm sharing nohing is set in stone. I've seen gold 190 and white ones even the most amazing one I was shown by my brother who belongs to a member on plecoplanet looks like a tiger and it's greenish.

As for the fish in the lnk both look to be 190 and maybe the fist fish is male second is too small

[matthewfaulkner]

Thats what I was thinking but some of the pics in Cat-elog are a little confusing.

Which Panaque would you say had the greenish colour (not L191)?

http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewto ... 23&t=57849

Thanks

Yes, I find the Panaque Cat-eLog pictures confusing, especially some recent additions I've just noticed. The last two pictures in

Panaque cf_armbrusteri`araguaia`

definitely don't fit with the others.

I'm pretty sure the fish in that link are Panaque nigrolineatus, and I think the poster is a little premature in assuming that they are male and female, but that's beside the point.

As Megacat said,

Panaque titan

or L418, are green as well as

Panaque schaeferi

, who seem to be very variable as juveniles.

[jamos]

To go off topic slightly....

How do you tell the difference between L191 Dull eyes and L418 P. titan?

[matthewfaulkner]

To go off topic slightly....

How do you tell the difference between L191 Dull eyes and L418 P. titan?

With difficulty At least for me. On the whole they are very similar fish, both essentially green and stripy. I've only seen P. titan/L418 a few times in person, and L191 a fair bit more, but P.titan always strikes me as a more attractive fish (up until about 25cm).

I think the best place to start is the price/availability of P. titan. They are commonly much more expensive (at smaller sizes) and only seasonally available. With L191 being far cheaper and more commonly available.

P. titan when under 20cm, or so, seem to have have orange red eyes whereas L191 at that size tend to be uniformly dark brown/purple etc (hence their useful common name 'dull eye royal').

Their caudal fin seems to differ as well. L191 tend to have a more deeply forked caudal fin whereas P. titan have more broad broom shaped caudal fins.

[jamos]

Thanks

Didn't think it would be very easy to distinguish between them

[megacat]

When both 418 and 191 are in front of you it's very easy to tell them apart. In pictures it's not so easy unless the picture shows the actual colour of the fish.

Both can have purpleish eyes when young. 418 can also have redish and yellowish eyes as well. The caudal fin of a young 191 will have a white outline the caudal fin young 418 will have a yellow outline.

418 is a much brighter green. 191 is almost grey.