Biotope tank for Horabagrus brachysoma

[minipol]

Hi,

since the Horabagrus are my favourite kind of fish, I'm currently thinking of changing my big tank to a biotope for them.
I checked the Vemabad Fish count reports to see what fish are in there with the Hora's.
I found the 2008 en 2009 reports, not the latest one's which is a bit of a shame.

Anyway, turns out there are a lot of fish, but if I want to keep barbs as well, I have to be picky as to what catfish I chose
and what tankmates.
If I go for a Vemabad tank, I came up with this (not sure I can get the Mystus vittatus over here, they keep sending Mystus mysticetus)

Top Layer
3/5 Aplocheilus lineatus

Mid layer
12 x Puntius filamentosis

Bottom layer
6 x Horabagrus brachysoma (These I already got)
6 x Mystus vittatus 21 cm

If I can't find the Mystus, I could go with Heteropneustes fossilis but I'm not to fond of the fact they have 3 poisonous spines
Or I oould enlarge the group of Horabagrus but I think 6 is good already?

Anyway, Puntius denisonii is also a very nice fish but in Vemabad, it doesn't seem to occur together with the Horabagrus.
I know the Hora's can be found in rivers that end up in the lake as well, so it might be that in such a river, the Hora's,
do occur with Puntius denisonii and maybe other Mystus that are more readily available.

Does anybody know of such a river and ideally, have a list of fish that occur in said river?

It would also help to have some underwater pics of the biotope the see how it's setup although I assume big rocks, driftwood and plants.
As for plants, I know Cryptocoryne retrospiralis can be found there.
Other Cryptocoryne's, other easy plants?

I'm thinking of adding a big log so I could attach a plant to the end of the log that nearly is surfaced so the plant may grow out of the tank.
Off course I would have to remover the lid on that part of the tank but that's not an issue.

Thanks for any info !

[Shovelnose]

Puntius chola,P.filamentosus,Etroplus maculatus,E.suratenis are some of the other species I have collected along with H.brachysoma from the Vembanad Lake.


You will have a wider and more interesting range to choose from if you go for a Chalakudy River Biotope/Theme Tank where these fish are found along with H.nigricollaris,Puntius chalkudiensis,P.denisonii, Tor sp. , Hypselobarbus sp. etc.. I don't know your tank dimensions but a tank with Horabagrus and Hypselobarbus will look stunning IMO.


Chalakudy Checklist : http://crgkerala.academia.edu/RajeevRag ... tion_needs

[Shovelnose]

Some pictures from an old trip of mine. I am not sure if they will be of much use though : http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 26&t=29084

[minipol]

@Shovelnose
My tank dimensions are 270cm/90cm/70cm, about 1700 liters.

I was kind of hoping I would have other options to have some more choice of tankmates from the same biotope.
A Chalakudy River Biotope would also be nice. It's not that I per se want to have a Vembanad type tank.
I just want to build a tank around the Horabagrus.

Good to know that Puntius denisonii is also seen alongside Horabagrus in the Chalakudy river.
I'm not familiar with Hypselobarbus, it certainly sounds interesting.
Thanks for the species list, that's exactely what I need
Is it possible to download it somewhere in pdf? If I try the download link, you need a login to get the pdf.

Any Mystus from that river that are easy to come by? Mystus vitattus is not easy to find here.
Or should I concentrate solely on the Horabagrus then? I have 6 now, I could get more.

The other tankmates can not be to small otherwise they'll end up as food.

Another question then is how the river looks (setup) and what plants can be found there.

Great pics from your trip, super !

I see that Aplocheilus lineatus also has been found in that river, that's nice to now as I like a species to populate the
top layer of the tank. I did see the current was quite heavy, can species like Aplocheilus take the current?
In my tank, I can see the Hora's like current. Was this also the case in the river?

What is the average water temperature of the water? At 20°C, that's rather low ?
I thought Hora's were better kept at around 23°C?

Edit: I just read in the report "Fish fauna of Chalakudy River..." that a lot more fish was found downstream in pools
where the temperature was a bit higher. So I assume most species can be found in such an environment too.
Would be nice to know what temperature these pools have.

One more question while I'm at it, will Aplocheilus and Puntius denisonii/filamentosis stand a chance with the Hora's?
The Hora's are about 17cm now. Or is it better to keep Barilius bakeri and/or Danio/Devario malabaricus ?
I can get some Puntius denisonii but these are really small (5cm max). As they are expensive, I do not want to risk
putting them in if they end up as snacks

[Shovelnose]

Mystus malabaricus

also enters the trade on and off. I think you should skip

Mystus

though. There is the risk of the H.brachysoma swallowing it once they grow slightly bigger. Aplocheilus lineatus were collected close to the bank where there was hardly any current. These too will be eaten IMO.

Puntius filamentosus,Pristolepis marginata,Osteochilus longidorsalis,Hypselobarbus curmuca,Hypselobarbus kolus,Horabagrus nigricollaris,Etroplus maculatus,Barbodes carnaticus, Barilius bakeri,Barilius gatensis etc are better choices as they are farily deep bodied and are found in the trade as well. Also, my taste leans towards the silver barbs rather than the more colourful ones.

I don't think temperature is really an issue with H.brachysoma . But the cyprinids will definitely appreciate something in the range of 25 C or so with good DO. My H.brachysoma was collected from this river and it withstood our summers (ambient 43 C) with no discomfort.

Plants found there were Potamogeton gayi,Rotala macrandra,Hygrophila difformis and an Ambulia sp. My knowledge of aquatic plants is severely limited so I am sure I left out dozens of species.

PM your mail address to me. I will send a few papers over.

Ps : Horabagrus brachysoma is also found in Karnataka.

[Marc van Arc]

Minipol, I think you've found a perfect partner to help you with your plans.
Hope everything will work out as you want/like/hope and I'll certainly follow your thread, both here and on NCF.

[minipol]

Again, thanks for all the info !
The Aplocheilus will be a nono, that's what I thought.

I thought yesterday, that it might not be enough to recreate a river biotope, but I also need to take in account
what part of the river I want to imitate.
As the Hora's will eat smaller fish, I need to go with faster fish, and then I end up with a biotope with more current.
Or do Hora's prefer warmer environments with less current ?

Also, I have a feeling it would be better to skip other catfish and enlarge the group of Horabagrus or add Horabagrus nigricollaris.
What is your take on that?

As for tank mates, I'm thinking of Puntius filamentosus and Barilius bakeri then. Faster fish that only need a bedrock environment with current.
The silver barbs are great too and my tank gets full sunlight. It's great
I can provide 16.000 lph current from 2 pumps (bio & external filter, and 2 powerheads).
I hope the Hora's can take this current too but from what I observed in the aquarium, they like current.

Email address sent, thanks !

@Marc
Indeed, without this kind of info, I wouldn't be able to do it !

[Shovelnose]

I would also skip the Barilius as I just remembered my H.brachysoma went to a friend and all his Danio and Chela disappeared. Barilius are only as broad as Danio/Devario and hence might face a problem. Deeper bodied Dawkinsia (the new genus name for the "P.filamentosus" group) like D.filamentosa or D.assimilis, or Systomus sarana (new genus name for the "P.sarana" group),Barbodes carnaticus,Hypselobarbus sp, Tor etc are better suited. The silver barbs are quite powerful (in addition to being cracking fish) and will survive. Pristolepis marginata or P.rubripinnis are also good choices.

I think H.brachysoma will be found in deeper waters with a moderate to good current. I really don't think you need plants. Lots of wood and good sized rocks will do as the deeper parts of the river has very little or no flora. Current will be fine for the barbs.






Pictures : Gokul

This specimen is from the Chalakudy and is pink almost throughout the year. I am not sure if this is Pristolepis marginata or P.rubripinnis . Papers sent.

[minipol]

Thanks for the papers, I will read them with great interest.
It seems like a lot of the Hypselobarbus sp. Get very big.
Hypselobarbus dubius, Hypselobarbus kolus, Hypselobarbus kurali, Hemibarbus mylodon or doable lengthwise,
Hypselobarbus kolus also appears in the river and is a good candidate. Don't know if I can get it here.

As for Barbodes carnaticus, Fishbase says 60cm, that's too big for my tank
D. filamentosa seems like a very good option. Not to big, higher bodied.
The Pristolepis marginata looks great.

As per your suggestion, I can setup the tank with lot's of rocks, and some driftwood and keep
the good current I already have now (now I also have a setup with only rocks).
Candidates left for tankmates:
- Hypselobarbus kolus
- D./P. filamentosa
- Pristolepis marginata

Is the Pristolepis a fish you can keep in a group or better a couple?
How big would a group of D./P. filamentosa need to be to have good group behaviour?
Also, would I add more Hora's or stick with the 6 I have now?

Cheers and thanks for all the help so far !

[minipol]

Another remark regarding to sexing.
In one of the papers I read this:

"Since males and females were easily distinguishable, they were identified by their big,
soft and distended belly with swollen and reddish-pink vent (females) and reddish genital opening (males)."

In the profile here at PC, it says "Sexing Unknown"

Time to change the profile?

[Shovelnose]

Hypselobarbus curmuca, H.thomassi, H.jerdoni and H.kolus enter the trade from the Chalakudy. I think a dozen D.filamentosa and a shoal of Hypselobarbus sp. for the upper/middle levels and 6 P.marginata for the lower levels sounds good. I don't think you need to add anymore H.brachysoma.



Hypselobarbus kurali. Long dead, so the colours on the fins have faded a bit.

[minipol]

Hi,

a lot of credit goes to Shovelnose for providing me with the info to make a decision on the species that can be kept together with the Horabagrus and how to keep them.
Thanks mate !

The setup will be:

6 x Hypselobarbus kolus/kurali
12 x Dawkinsia (Puntius) filamentosa
6 x Pristolepis marginata
6 x Horabagrus brachysoma

Setup will be mainly rocks and sand, a good current (I now have about 15000 lph) and a temperature between 23 and 25°C.
I first will have to sell the other fish and then I will setup the tank.
I will post pics of the tank once all the other fish are out.

[coelacanth]

We're planning something similar in a c.1000 gallon display. This is very useful information for us, as H. brachysoma was on the list as a possible inhabitant, but we may have to reconsider based on the possible predation issues. Dawkinsia spp. and Denison's Barbs will certainly be included, other occupants are still under discussion.

[minipol]

Glad the thread is usefull. When I have my fish, I will report back to the thread.

[Bas Pels]

You might even benefit from each others experiences

[Shovelnose]

We're planning something similar in a c.1000 gallon display.

Will this be a specific river biotope or a more general Indian/south Indian biotope???

[coelacanth]

It's probably going to end up as a general south Indian display. It's going to be about showing the diversity of fish in India while still retaining some elements of biogeographical integrity. The Indian subcontinent is one area we're not currently representing, we've been planning to do so for some time but other things have taken priority.

[Shovelnose]

Considering the size of the tank and the choice of fish available, you are going to end up with a stunning exhibit for sure.

[coelacanth]

AS with Minipol, we're going to be interested in seeing some more habitat pics so that we can try to create a reasonable visual facsimile of a river from that area. Lighting will be 6500K hetal halide as suitable LEDs for the depth are still expensive, although in time this will change. We'll be using decent quality artificial plants, we've been really impressed with the quality of the Aqua One range since seeing them at Pier Aquatics (we've actually had people commenting on our healthy Amazon swords not realising that they are fake!), plus there are some other larger ones from Aquarline which will be worth looking at. We haven't yet decided on substrate, we'll be using trickle filters run by a large submersible, with c. 50% weekly water changes. We're currently testing one of the Hydro Wizard directional flow pumps with a view to using one for this display, it's generating significant linear flow even in our 15ft tank so in a 10ft it should produce an excelllent effect.

[Shovelnose]

Which rivers are you looking at???

[coelacanth]

The Chalakudy is the most obvious choice, given the excellent paper available on the fish fauna and the fact that the Western Ghats is an area that features in literature as a target area for education around conservation, but we may stretch this based on fish availability (and if we see a fish we really like ).

[Shovelnose]

but we may stretch this based on fish availability (and if we see a fish we really like ).

Makes perfect sense as there are quite a few cracking fish present outside of Kerala too.

[minipol]

I've settled on the Chalakudy but as you say, I hope I can get the fish.
I started out checking the Vembanad lake, but the Chalakudy provides more fish to work with in a biotope setup as I
want to stick to a specific biotope and part of the river, but ultimately it will come down to what fish I can get a hold off.
The D./Puntius filamentosa is quite doable, but for the other 2 species I plan to keep, it's going to be
a little bit tougher, but that's part of the challenge

[minipol]

As suspected, I couldn't get almost any of my original fish.
So I had to compromise.

19 x Puntius denisonii
10 x Puntius filamentosus
13 x Barilius bakeri
6 x Horabagrus brachysoma
9 x Mystus mysticetus
1 x Macrognathus pancalus
1 x Pristolepsis marganitus

And the one exotic fish, a family pet that we won't get rid of, the P. pardalis
This is the best tank I ever had, almost biotope correct and it works like a charm. I'm a happy camper.
Although the Mystus and Macrognathus aren't the exact correct species, the Chalakudy contains
Mystus and Macrognathus so to me it's ok.
A couple more Pristolepsis and the tank would be perfect.

I added a night light as the Horabagrus otherwise ate the Barilius.
Now the smaller fish can survive. Do not underestimate the Horabagrus as night hunters...
The probably got 2 of my 3 eels as well.


Afternoon, with sun on the tank

In the evening, 1 grolux TL

[Shovelnose]

The set up looks very nice. Do you have a frontal picture of it???

Horabagrus otherwise ate the Barilius.

Unfortunately, the chances of this continuing are overwhelming. I can't judge the size of the P.denisonii as I took only a quick look at the video, how big are they??? That is a good sized Pristolepis , I didn't know they entered the trade at this size. It is quite unfortunate Hypselobarbus weren't available, they would have made a stunning addition to the tank.

[N0body Of The Goat]

I'm shocked the Puntius denisonii are being left alone, but the Opsarius bakeri (which might be the smaller sp. 2 or Opsarius canarensis, "MartinS" bought my four which I think were canarensis back in February, he is about to rehome them along with the Pearl Danios and Glyptothorax siamensis to someone local to him) are being picked off. The Opsarius look far bigger in girth, I can only guess that they are far more static overnight than the Puntius, despite having both species I cannot comment on overnight behaviour as they were down in my garage 5x2x2.

How big are the Opsarius? Unless they are sp. 2s, they should reach close to 15cm SL, my cf. canarensis were ~12cm SL back in February. Have you got the option of moving out the Opsarius to another tank for a few months to let them put on some length and girth?

[minipol]

I've gone about 2 weeks without losing a single Barilius and they were tiny.
Of the 19 Puntius, 2 were in rather bad shape when I got them, 1 died, and was not eaten, the other one,
tiny and not fast at all, was left alone.
The key in my humble opinion, a night light. Unfortunately I only found a light that 28 leds.
I calculated that I needed 2 to 3 to simulate moonlight in my tank so I covered the other leds up.
And since then it's been smooth sailing.
The Hora's leave the fish alone. Now if I would stop feeding for a few days, then I would suspect they would
try again. Only fish that did disappear where 2 small eels. Slow and on the bottom, they disappeared
a few days after I bought them. The last one is left alone though.
I know it's a bit of a gamble but we'll see. At least the P. filamentosus are going to get to big to be eaten.

Another fun thing to see is that both Puntius species are grazing the algae that form on the rocks.
Amazing to see. Since it's autumn here and the sun doesn't shine as powerful, I removed all the top covers so
the tank gets daylight all day long and direct sun for about 2 to 3 hours.
More algae to feast on

After removing the Parauchenoglanis, I rescaped the tank a bit. I spread the pvc pipes out in the tank
instead of bunched up and made some more space to the left.
Then I added the Pristolepsis and boom, finally, the Horas came out again.
A few crappy pics and a video.
I got the Pristolepsis via a mate in Holland. It was a returnee. Sat there, nobody wants such a "gray" fish.
They did put some Nimbochromis livingstonii in it's tank so it was a week from sudden death.
The mate was kind enough to get it for me and we traded, he got the Parauchenoglanis, I got the Pristolepsis.
It's a fun fish and after all it's been through, was amazingly quick to recover.
I love it.
A frontal of the tank as asked, this is with the 1 T5 I use.



The Horabagrus:




The video:

[Shovelnose]

I've gone about 2 weeks without losing a single Barilius and they were tiny.

Lets hope this trend continues. I still suggest keeping an eye out for bigger cyprininds.

Only fish that did disappear where 2 small eels.

How small were these??? Don't write these off unless you see the carcasses (unless they were small enough to be swallowed whole). They are extremely adept at pulling off the disappearing act and then reappearing suddenly.

It's a fun fish and after all it's been through, was amazingly quick to recover. I love it.

Keep an eye out for more of these too.

[minipol]

Balaji,

I did try to get bigger cyprinids, but I couldn't get any.
Bala shark where as close as I could get. And I didn't feel like they were a good option.
So I hope it keeps on working.

The eels where about 10 cm. The one survivor does quite well.

Keep an eye out for more of these too.

Indeed, some more would make a welcome addition, but even with only 1 of them, I'm quite happy with the tank.

[Vaney..]

Very nice set up