hi folks
please help me on this one
presently i am having a problem with my 50 gal plec community tank
tank parameters : ph - 7
gh - 9
kh - 5
nh3/4 - 0
no2 - 0
no3 - 0
regular weekly water change of 20%(replacement water aged for 1-2 days and hagen aqua plus dechlorinator added)
filtration setup : cannister flowrate 1200l/hr
internal filter flowrate 2000l/hr
for the past 3 weeks they have been an average 2 -3 deathof plecs size averaging 3-4 inch (larger plecs 6-8 inch doing fine)
all victims died with no sunken eyes or stomachs no visible markings or damage
i noticed the pattern whereby prior to death the victims will be coming out of their usual hiding place and will be hanging out in the open
victims will continue to eat but movement sluggish
following the hanging out in the open they will die in 2-3 days time
all plecs have been quarantined for at least 2 weeks before moving to display tank
suspected internal parasites and have started treating the tank with waterlife sterazin
death toll still going up
community tank consists of cardinals, c. sterba and c. panda all doing well
what should i do
any advice will be greatly appreciated
mpd - mysterious plec death
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Shane
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Hewely,
Go to 20 percent daily water changes until things look OK as this is the only treatment I have found that helps. I just went through something very similar and lost two of my four L 129. They were fine in the afternoon, we went out for the evening and when we came home two were dead. No visible signs of disease or damage. The remaining two are hanging near the surface and look bad. They share the tank with some dwarf cichlids that look as happy as can be and two L 52 that munch on cucumber while their tankmates drop like flys. Mind you this tank had been running this way for about four months without so much as a single change of fish or decor and they just had a 60 percent water change four days before they got sick.
I know this does not sound like an "expert" opinion, but sometimes even the best aquarists lose some fish and never know what happened or why.
-Shane
Go to 20 percent daily water changes until things look OK as this is the only treatment I have found that helps. I just went through something very similar and lost two of my four L 129. They were fine in the afternoon, we went out for the evening and when we came home two were dead. No visible signs of disease or damage. The remaining two are hanging near the surface and look bad. They share the tank with some dwarf cichlids that look as happy as can be and two L 52 that munch on cucumber while their tankmates drop like flys. Mind you this tank had been running this way for about four months without so much as a single change of fish or decor and they just had a 60 percent water change four days before they got sick.
I know this does not sound like an "expert" opinion, but sometimes even the best aquarists lose some fish and never know what happened or why.
-Shane
"My journey is at an end and the tale is told. The reader who has followed so faithfully and so far, they have the right to ask, what do I bring back? It can be summed up in three words. Concentrate upon Uganda."
Winston Churchill, My African Journey
Winston Churchill, My African Journey
mpd
hi shane
thanks for the reply
drastic times calls for drastic measures
i will adhere to your advice
if your advice are not considered of the expert levels
i wanders whos then will be
any other tips or things i can add into the tank to help??
thanks for the reply
drastic times calls for drastic measures
i will adhere to your advice
if your advice are not considered of the expert levels
i wanders whos then will be
any other tips or things i can add into the tank to help??
-
Shane
- Expert
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- Location 1: Tysons
- Location 2: Virginia
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Hewely,
No, it sounds like you are doing a great job and taking very good care of your fish, which is why I wanted to respond. The sad fact is that even when we do everything right, once in a great while, we still lose some fish. Don't let this get you down.
-Shane
No, it sounds like you are doing a great job and taking very good care of your fish, which is why I wanted to respond. The sad fact is that even when we do everything right, once in a great while, we still lose some fish. Don't let this get you down.
-Shane
"My journey is at an end and the tale is told. The reader who has followed so faithfully and so far, they have the right to ask, what do I bring back? It can be summed up in three words. Concentrate upon Uganda."
Winston Churchill, My African Journey
Winston Churchill, My African Journey
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Barbie
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Just as a side note here, how do you maintain a zero nitrate level?
If the fish will eat, you might try treating their food with garlic. It does seem to make a noticable difference in discus at least. I definitely agree with Shane about the water changes. There are many times I don't know what's wrong with a tank, the fish just aren't acting right, but a water change or two usually fixes them right up.
Barbie
If the fish will eat, you might try treating their food with garlic. It does seem to make a noticable difference in discus at least. I definitely agree with Shane about the water changes. There are many times I don't know what's wrong with a tank, the fish just aren't acting right, but a water change or two usually fixes them right up.
Barbie
thanks for the pat on the back shane, i presumeShane wrote:Hewely,
No, it sounds like you are doing a great job and taking very good care of your fish, which is why I wanted to respond. The sad fact is that even when we do everything right, once in a great while, we still lose some fish. Don't let this get you down.
-Shane
things dont seems so gloomy now
will stick to the water change and keep my fingers crossed
update you guys soon of improvement, if any
hi barbieBarbie wrote:Just as a side note here, how do you maintain a zero nitrate level?
If the fish will eat, you might try treating their food with garlic. It does seem to make a noticable difference in discus at least. I definitely agree with Shane about the water changes. There are many times I don't know what's wrong with a tank, the fish just aren't acting right, but a water change or two usually fixes them right up.
Barbie
thanks for replying
good to know that there are so many pros who care and share out there
heard of some local pros using some form of garlic concentrate meant for aquarium over here too
yet to get my hands on them
will update you on plecos response to garlic once i try
and the reason for the zero nitrate in my tank i believe its due to the filter media i am using
nothings wrong with the test kit because it does registers readings of nitrates on my other tanks
check out the filter media:
http://www.aqua-bio.com/en/biohome/benefits.html
magnum4 wrote:Bio home by algard is good stuff however you don't move it between tanks do you?
How do you wash out your bio home? I know it's beginners questions but i have to ask.
hi magnum4
i agree too, biohome is truely quality
and i dont think your question is beginner at all
as i feel that in this hobby its a never ending learning process
i am using it in my cannister filter so transferring it in between filters to speed up the maturing of a new filter is possible
as my filter comes with 3 media trays so i wash the bio home simply by dipping it into tank water i extracted during water change
its not really neccesary to wash it throughly as i find that most of the filth are stuck in the ceramic rings and abit in my eheim substrat pro
and after doing so i will dump in some snake oil (sera nitrivec - i am a sucker for bacteria products
)actually i was trying to make sure you have not brought a infection into the tank via other tanks through the media, as i too seed my tanks in a similar method.i am using it in my cannister filter so transferring it in between filters to speed up the maturing of a new filter is possible
I will have to improve on my questioning method. i should have said do you use tap water to wash out the media?its not really neccesary to wash it throughly as i find that most of the filth are stuck in the ceramic rings and abit in my eheim substrat pro
Hi,
I had the same thing happen with a king tiger.healthy as can be then one day
it became sluggish with no other signs of illness,still eating ok and spending more time
in the open 'til one day it died.
All the other tank occupants where fine,water quality ok ,no fault with heater
or anything.
It's a bloody mystery
Shame too because it was a beautiful pl*co.
Oh so sad
Lisa
I had the same thing happen with a king tiger.healthy as can be then one day
it became sluggish with no other signs of illness,still eating ok and spending more time
in the open 'til one day it died.
All the other tank occupants where fine,water quality ok ,no fault with heater
or anything.
It's a bloody mystery
Shame too because it was a beautiful pl*co.
Oh so sad
Lisa
hi magnum4magnum4 wrote:actually i was trying to make sure you have not brought a infection into the tank via other tanks through the media, as i too seed my tanks in a similar method.i am using it in my cannister filter so transferring it in between filters to speed up the maturing of a new filter is possible
I will have to improve on my questioning method. i should have said do you use tap water to wash out the media?its not really neccesary to wash it throughly as i find that most of the filth are stuck in the ceramic rings and abit in my eheim substrat pro
i did not kickstart my tank using seeding i was using my trusty old snake oil
and i dont think its a good idea to wash the media using tap water unless you wish to use it in a new tank, cause washing it using tap water will murder the bb
but personally i prefer to use new media for a new tank
i believe in safe not sorry
i share your sentiments i have lost 204, 252 x 2, 47, 191, 96, 35 ,18 sob sob soblisa23 wrote:Hi,
I had the same thing happen with a king tiger.healthy as can be then one day
it became sluggish with no other signs of illness,still eating ok and spending more time
in the open 'til one day it died.
All the other tank occupants where fine,water quality ok ,no fault with heater
or anything.
It's a bloody mystery
Shame too because it was a beautiful pl*co.
Oh so sad
Lisa
all due to this mysterious plague
That is a hell of a lot of fish to lose I thought you were talking about a one off.i share your sentiments i have lost 204, 252 x 2, 47, 191, 96, 35 ,18 sob sob sob
all due to this mysterious plague
more investigation if i were you, test for everthing, copper, disolved oxygen, temperature fluctuations...ect.
mpd
hi magnum
thanks for the tip
personally doubt that the cause of death is due to temperature fluctuactions
i am from Singapore and over here temperature is at a constant of 29 celsius
i am only able to bring the temp down to 26-27 using 2 ac fans on each tank
dissloved oxygen should be high due to the surface agitation caused by the fans and my ac/dc air pump
only thing i am not too sure about will be copper?
pardon me but this is something new for me, why will it be necessary to test for copper in an aquarium?
and as i mentioned in my earlier thread the rest of the plec tank mates - cardinals and corys are fine only plecs age suffering from the plague
thanks for the tip
personally doubt that the cause of death is due to temperature fluctuactions
i am from Singapore and over here temperature is at a constant of 29 celsius
i am only able to bring the temp down to 26-27 using 2 ac fans on each tank
dissloved oxygen should be high due to the surface agitation caused by the fans and my ac/dc air pump
only thing i am not too sure about will be copper?
pardon me but this is something new for me, why will it be necessary to test for copper in an aquarium?
and as i mentioned in my earlier thread the rest of the plec tank mates - cardinals and corys are fine only plecs age suffering from the plague
-
spiny
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Pleco losses
When did the fishes die? Morning? Evening? Densely planted tank? Few plants? Did you check your ph both in the evening, and in the morning before the lights went on? Temperature? Rotting leaves or similar?
Here are four things to look for:
1) Watervalues. You general hardness is 9, and karbonatehardness 5. Something might be wrong here. One of my books ,a good aquariumguide from Könemann publishers, says: "there is a relation between general hardness and karbonatehardness. The closer the kh is to the gh, the more balanced the water can be said to be. If kh is less than 75% of the general hardness, you can assume there is a problem." Thats all it says. I had this problem this summer, but with the addition of some other water than my tap water, the problem disappeared. My gh was 8, and kh 4. Now these values are closer, and the water stable. I would like a more detailed explanation on this though.
2) Dechlorinator. What kind of chlorine do your watersupplier use? The last few years more and more watersuppliers (is there a better word for it in english?) have started to use chloramine instead of chlorine , and many declorinators does not really remove this effectively! Huge rather unknown problem! Chlorine, traditionally used in city water, disappeats more easily. Chloramine will need some chemical conditioner treatment, and I have read somewhere that it even then can be difficult to remove effectively. My Piranha book from TFH mentions this, and I recently saw an even more detailed article on this somewhere... If I find it I will tell. Check with your supplier what they use to keep the bacteria in your tapwater down!
3) Carbonfiltering? Do you use carbonfiltering in the tank? This should only be used in short intervalls, as the carbon might, without further notice release all toxic stuff that it has formerly absorbed. When using medication, never use carbon at the same time!
4) Waterchanges. Do you clean your filter at the same time as you're changing water? This might cause a severe drop in the nitrification bacteria, creating rapid nitrit build up. Under conditions of little oxygen available, the process might in rare cases turn (denitrification) as mentioned in the Baensch aquarium lexicon vol 1. First change water, then wait at least a week before cleaning filter.
NB! If the tank is really in need of cleaning, do not change "half the water". Change either one third or less, or more than two thirds. If the water contains lots of ammonium, the ammonium can change to ammoniac due to a increase in the ph. Change one third or less, this imbalance wont happen, and two thirds or more, you changed enough water to avoid to high concentrations anyway.
Good luck with your fishes!
Here are four things to look for:
1) Watervalues. You general hardness is 9, and karbonatehardness 5. Something might be wrong here. One of my books ,a good aquariumguide from Könemann publishers, says: "there is a relation between general hardness and karbonatehardness. The closer the kh is to the gh, the more balanced the water can be said to be. If kh is less than 75% of the general hardness, you can assume there is a problem." Thats all it says. I had this problem this summer, but with the addition of some other water than my tap water, the problem disappeared. My gh was 8, and kh 4. Now these values are closer, and the water stable. I would like a more detailed explanation on this though.
2) Dechlorinator. What kind of chlorine do your watersupplier use? The last few years more and more watersuppliers (is there a better word for it in english?) have started to use chloramine instead of chlorine , and many declorinators does not really remove this effectively! Huge rather unknown problem! Chlorine, traditionally used in city water, disappeats more easily. Chloramine will need some chemical conditioner treatment, and I have read somewhere that it even then can be difficult to remove effectively. My Piranha book from TFH mentions this, and I recently saw an even more detailed article on this somewhere... If I find it I will tell. Check with your supplier what they use to keep the bacteria in your tapwater down!
3) Carbonfiltering? Do you use carbonfiltering in the tank? This should only be used in short intervalls, as the carbon might, without further notice release all toxic stuff that it has formerly absorbed. When using medication, never use carbon at the same time!
4) Waterchanges. Do you clean your filter at the same time as you're changing water? This might cause a severe drop in the nitrification bacteria, creating rapid nitrit build up. Under conditions of little oxygen available, the process might in rare cases turn (denitrification) as mentioned in the Baensch aquarium lexicon vol 1. First change water, then wait at least a week before cleaning filter.
NB! If the tank is really in need of cleaning, do not change "half the water". Change either one third or less, or more than two thirds. If the water contains lots of ammonium, the ammonium can change to ammoniac due to a increase in the ph. Change one third or less, this imbalance wont happen, and two thirds or more, you changed enough water to avoid to high concentrations anyway.
Good luck with your fishes!
Bjorn H S
"Oh, uh, this..the moon is in the wrong position!"
Ozzy Osbourne
"Oh, uh, this..the moon is in the wrong position!"
Ozzy Osbourne
Things just happen. For some unknown reason sometimes what seems like a perfectly healthy, eating and agile cat will just go out into the open and die. My hats off to Shane to say something like that. At least, I know all of us are in good company. Thanks Shane!
I posted problems with my panaques before with the same symptoms. These symptoms happen with all of the water parameters fine and all the other pl*cs fine. Everything was fine. No plants, one layer of gravel (1/4 inch), regular water changes. Some areas were even bare of gravel. Water comes from tap but is given a day to "rest" before putting them into the tanks. Short of doing a "fish autopsy", we may never really know for sure. Funny thing is some "experts" just won't let up. Something always has to be wrong with the owner of the tank. Apparently some people can control everything.
Tell you a secret --- even the best of them lose fish.
Regards,
Mike D.
I posted problems with my panaques before with the same symptoms. These symptoms happen with all of the water parameters fine and all the other pl*cs fine. Everything was fine. No plants, one layer of gravel (1/4 inch), regular water changes. Some areas were even bare of gravel. Water comes from tap but is given a day to "rest" before putting them into the tanks. Short of doing a "fish autopsy", we may never really know for sure. Funny thing is some "experts" just won't let up. Something always has to be wrong with the owner of the tank. Apparently some people can control everything.
Tell you a secret --- even the best of them lose fish.
Regards,
Mike D.
i agree with you mokmumokmu wrote:Things just happen. For some unknown reason sometimes what seems like a perfectly healthy, eating and agile cat will just go out into the open and die. My hats off to Shane to say something like that. At least, I know all of us are in good company. Thanks Shane!
I posted problems with my panaques before with the same symptoms. These symptoms happen with all of the water parameters fine and all the other pl*cs fine. Everything was fine. No plants, one layer of gravel (1/4 inch), regular water changes. Some areas were even bare of gravel. Water comes from tap but is given a day to "rest" before putting them into the tanks. Short of doing a "fish autopsy", we may never really know for sure. Funny thing is some "experts" just won't let up. Something always has to be wrong with the owner of the tank. Apparently some people can control everything.
Tell you a secret --- even the best of them lose fish.
Regards,
Mike D.
by the way any idea what happened to tkp i really miss pics of his fishes and tanks