Lost my Leporacanthicus galaxis, possible bloat?

INXS · Post by **INXS** » 07 Oct 2004, 04:01

I just lost my fat Leporacanthicus galaxis - found him dead in the tank this morning. When I hauled him in I figured I would at least disect him.

He had the long nose , bushy pectorals and cactus like growth on the back of his body to resemble a male yet the fish was so fat it was almost comical - like he swallowed a golfball. In disecting the fish I found nothing but excessive fluid in the stomach cavity - no sign of eggs , tumors or excessive fat.

The fish was about 6" long and fed Aquadine protein, spirulina flake, bloodworms, zuccini and occasional blackworms. He had been looking fat for several months and I think what finally pushed him over the edge was bringing him to a show this past weekend. He spent 2 days in an unheated 2.5 gal tank and was later brought home where he was quickly acclimated and put back in with several other plecos in a 29g. Everything seemed fine - besides the obesity thing and then he was dead.

I am curious if there are any thoughtson what could have been the problem. I have encountered the problem with bloat and death once before when a heater failed which led to bloated plecos and death.

Can I save a fish like that if it happens again and if so , how?
Thanks

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 07 Oct 2004, 09:25

Very sorry to hear about your loss.

Assuming that the actual reason for the loss was the unheated tank at the show, wouldn't an obvious solution be to get a small heater to keep the small tank at the correct temperature (at least roughly)?

Of course, it could be that the relationship between the death and the show is simply that it stressed the little feller a bit more than the day to day life in the usual tank, and it's not really the temperature, but simply the stress from being moved to a smaller tank, being transported to/from the show and back into the normal tank. We all know that STRESS is a major killer in fish (and other animals, and even humans!).

I'm by no means an expert, just stating something that comes to mind. I just got back into having fish, and currently have a tank of 96L with just a few fish, and what I thought at the time of purchase was a "Common Pl*co" [that was the label on the tank], but it seems now that it's a "something else", perhaps juvenile Ancistrus. I'll post in the "What's this" section when I've got a good set of photos.

--
Mats

Post by **Janne** » 07 Oct 2004, 15:00

Did the fluid in the stomach smell and look greyish? Dont give them bloodworms and not either any extra protein, they will get enough protein from blackworms, shrimps, mussels and even from spirulina flake...you can also feed them wafers for loricariidae's.
If the bloat not have gone to far they will recover but it takes time, I usually move them to an other tank and raise the heat to around 30 C and starve them for weeks (sometimes months)...change water often. You have to watch how they breathe so it looks normal because if they have a fast breathe and the bloat they usually die very soon and that is to late to do anything.

Janne

Amanda_Allyammi · Post by **Amanda_Allyammi** » 07 Oct 2004, 20:51

No, you can't treat bloat, but you can quarantine the sick fish. Then take all the other fish out of the tank and empty it. Bleach the tank and ornaments, throw out the filter media, and pour boiling water over the gravel sveral times to disinfect the tank. Since bleach it basically the same stuff as Chlorine, you can use a HUGE dose of dechlorinator (like 10-15x the normal amount).
I hope this helps.

INXS · Post by **INXS** » 07 Oct 2004, 21:42

Janne,
it did smell pretty foul but I'm not sure it was greyish or clear.
The organs all looked normal just a large amount of fluid and the external belly of the fish was stretched to accomodate the extra fluid I guess.

Why would bloodworms be bad? As far as I know I have fed that particular leparocanthicus less bloodworms then most of the others but I am a bit concerned if there could be a problem with bloodworms.

I have been feeding a fair amount of protein latley as I am trying to simulate dry season to be able to do a rainy season in december and january. Bloodworms have been a staple on the menu for most of the plecos and I have noticed a number of them fattening up quite nicley - now I'm getting concerned. Should I change things?

Thanks

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 07 Oct 2004, 22:16

Fish respond to stress with a whole series of physiological changes.

The osmoregulatory system shuts down. With freshwater fish, that means they take in more water accross the gill membranes and excrete less. Blood chemistry can change drastically. Immune response is severely limited and digestion shuts down. Hence the need to starve fish out for a couple of days prior to shipping/showing.

This is likely what occurred in your fish. Excess food in it's stomach may have fouled when the digestive system stopped working. It sounds like the fish may have been already suffering from some form of digestive system ailment. OR, the fish just succumbed to the high levels of stress of being held in too small of a tank/unfamiliar surroundings only to be quickly reacclaimated to the original tank with several other fish to further add to the stress levels.

This is the main reason that I rarely, if ever, show fish. (I may break this for the upcoming Catfish Convention, but I am still on the fence so to speak!)

If I do stress a fish out severely (more likely upon reciept after bad shipping or something that didn't sell at a show), upon return to my tanks I try to provide plenty of cover, isolation if possible and as much filtration as possible. Also, I would hold off on ALL foods until either the fish acts like it wants to be fed, or wait at least a week until a fish settles in again.

Sorry to hear about your loss, from your photos, it was a good looking fish!

INXS · Post by **INXS** » 08 Oct 2004, 03:28

Thanks Paul,

your reasoning makes a lot of sence. It makes you wonder why they don't allow heaters in tanks for shows - especially late fall.
Are there heaters allowed for the catfish convention?

I was thinking of going but would only be able to make it for sunday and there seems to be nothing but the auction going on that day. I would have liked to see Ingo Seidel give a lecture.

I find it a little hard to tell when plecos want to be fed - not like when cichlids are begging for food.
Thanks

INXS · Post by **INXS** » 14 Oct 2004, 22:47

Janne,

do you leave driftwood in the tank even when you are starving the plecos?

I think this type of bloat is temperature related like if you feed snakes when they are cold - they will not be able to metabolise the food and it will rot in their stomach. I think I have heard that you are not supposed to feed goldfish and koi after the temperature drops past a certain point.

I have a feeling that this kind of bloat is related more to the fish getting chilled rather then a disease and consequently I don't think it is contagious.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 15 Oct 2004, 10:05

INXS wrote:Janne,

do you leave driftwood in the tank even when you are starving the pl*cos?

I think this type of bloat is temperature related like if you feed snakes when they are cold - they will not be able to metabolise the food and it will rot in their stomach. I think I have heard that you are not supposed to feed goldfish and koi after the temperature drops past a certain point.

I have a feeling that this kind of bloat is related more to the fish getting chilled rather then a disease and consequently I don't think it is contagious.

Since the metabolic rate of any animal is relative to it's body temperature (even mammals), there is logic to your reasoning.

Of course, the cooler the water (and hence the fish, as they are coldblooded animals), the less active the fish will be as well, and thus consume less energy, and food that is in it's digestive system will not get absorbed as quickly.

I'm not sure what the reason for not feeding pond-fish when it's cool, but I guess it's a combination of inactive fish -> not so hungry, and slower metabolism -> food takes longer to be processed. But also, since they are less hungry, you don't want to feed them and the food gets left uneaten and rotting in the pond.

--
Mats

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 15 Oct 2004, 10:26

INXS wrote:Janne,

do you leave driftwood in the tank even when you are starving the pl*cos?

I think this type of bloat is temperature related like if you feed snakes when they are cold - they will not be able to metabolise the food and it will rot in their stomach. I think I have heard that you are not supposed to feed goldfish and koi after the temperature drops past a certain point.

I have a feeling that this kind of bloat is related more to the fish getting chilled rather then a disease and consequently I don't think it is contagious.

Since the metabolic rate of any animal is relative to it's body temperature (even mammals), there is logic to your reasoning.

Of course, the cooler the water (and hence the fish, as they are coldblooded animals), the less active the fish will be as well, and thus consume less energy, and food that is in it's digestive system will not get absorbed as quickly.

I'm not sure what the reason for not feeding pond-fish when it's cool, but I guess it's a combination of inactive fish -> not so hungry, and slower metabolism -> food takes longer to be processed. But also, since they are less hungry, you don't want to feed them and the food gets left uneaten and rotting in the pond.

--
Mats

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 15 Oct 2004, 11:08

INXS wrote:Janne,

do you leave driftwood in the tank even when you are starving the pl*cos?

I think this type of bloat is temperature related like if you feed snakes when they are cold - they will not be able to metabolise the food and it will rot in their stomach. I think I have heard that you are not supposed to feed goldfish and koi after the temperature drops past a certain point.

I have a feeling that this kind of bloat is related more to the fish getting chilled rather then a disease and consequently I don't think it is contagious.

Since the metabolic rate of any animal is relative to it's body temperature (even mammals), there is logic to your reasoning.

Of course, the cooler the water (and hence the fish, as they are coldblooded animals), the less active the fish will be as well, and thus consume less energy, and food that is in it's digestive system will not get absorbed as quickly.

I'm not sure what the reason for not feeding pond-fish when it's cool, but I guess it's a combination of inactive fish -> not so hungry, and slower metabolism -> food takes longer to be processed. But also, since they are less hungry, you don't want to feed them and the food gets left uneaten and rotting in the pond.

--
Mats