L-173b from Glaser

All posts regarding the care and breeding of these catfishes from South America.
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L-173b from Glaser

Post by TwoTankAmin » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:43 am

As I promised a while back, I have taken a number of photos of the 7 fish I got via Glaser in Dec of 2009. I recently had to move them into new, more spacious, digs and used the opportunity to have my brother take pictures for me. There are 26 photos in all for the 7 fish and I felt trying to post them all here was a bit too much. What I have done is created a special gallery where they can be viewed. the pictures are Labeled Fish1, Fish 2 etc ,. and they go in order, if you are interested you can view them here http://twotankamin.smugmug.com/Fish/L-173b/n-chr5b

The original pictures were shot at a much higher resolution and they have been reduced 75-80% in size. When viewed in their original form the underside shots are amazing.

A always, I welcome all comments on these fish and what they may or may not be.
Last edited by TwoTankAmin on Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by bigbird » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:12 am

very nice fish indeed..cheers jk
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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by plecomanpat » Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:15 am

Beautiful patterns and colors,fish #2 looks like a male in the one picture
Lets go Red Wings

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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by TwoTankAmin » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:51 pm

When I posted this thread I was sure I would get at least a few responses telling me why my fish were not 173s and maybe one or two saying they could be. Considering how much discussion this topics has garnered in other posts, I am surprised there is no discussion here.

Should I take the fact that not one comment has been made as an assent from the PC cognoscenti that these fish are exactly what they were sold to me as?
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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by Yann » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:15 pm

Hi!

I think that this has been discussed a few times already so basically I am not sure anyone wants to comment again on what they are or what they are not (which is possibly the easiest thing to do).

My opinion hasn't change on this fish from my last intervention regarding the Id of such fish plus the fact that the ID of juvies of this Hypancistrus species group is even more a nightmare than to ID adult (which can be a nightmare also)

You will find a number of person to tell you they are this and the opposite number to tell you they are not...

If you happen to have spawn in the futur it will be important to sell (if you do sell them) under the ID you got them at the date you had them.

Not sure the debate will be more constructive this time than the other time, so basically everyone is sort of staying out.

The only thing I could eventually say from your pictures, they seem to be highly variable, with a range of colouration/pattern than could basically fit any other similar patterned Hypancistrus sp Lxx from the Rio Xingu

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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by TwoTankAmin » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:51 pm

Yann- Thanks for the input.

What I have come to believe about this whole issue is that there is nobody who really has any clue as to whether any of these various Hypancistrus species are actually distinct species, hybrids, cross breeds or variations. I have read on a number of sites and books with interest hoping that somebody would actually shed some light on this subject to no avail.

I think long before any of this gets resolved most of these fish will long have gone extinct in the wild and then it will all become moot.
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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by pleco22 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:39 pm

Hi,
don't get me wrong, but why do you think these fish are 173b from Aquarium Glaser? Do you get them directly?

Problem is - none of these fish shows any typical characteristic of L 173. That does not mean, that they are not L 173, but I would be very disapointed if I get this kind of fish for such a high price.

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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by Janne » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:10 am

They are not L173, some looks like L66 and others as L333 youngsters, the first 1-2-3 or so show deformities on their snout/head shape. When these are adults it will be much easier to tell if they are L66 or L333, i really doubt that these are bought from Glaser as L173b...

Janne

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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by TwoTankAmin » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:23 am

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by chris1932 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:12 am

Janne

Its pretty easy for you to say that were not sold as 173b. But I still have the boxes they were shipped in and packing list.

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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by ceh » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:56 am

l333 ...100% i have 20 of them in my aquarium

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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by Yann » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:26 am

Hi!!

the one "deformed" look to have a problem in their growth rate, keeping wasn't too good...eyes are too big compare to the body, which usually happened when kept in a too small tank with unappropriate conditions.

Regarding these L173b...the one I have seen before (live) were also looking like that and were indeed really coming from Glaser (except they were not deformed)
Another point I have always wonder why these fish german bred are sold as L173b while I have never seen adult wild caught being sold that way...

Again like I said these fish raise for me many many question which I cannot answer

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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by pleco22 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:22 pm

Hi,

sorry to say. But something went wrong. I have to say that the price is very high for L173. I have visited Glaser sometimes and I have seen L 173b. They are beautyful fishes in best condition. As I wrote in another posting, L 173 is very variable but usually easy to identify as semiadult and adult fish.

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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by chad320 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:48 pm

Still great looking fish!!

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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by Jools » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:59 pm

I've been asked to look into this thread. Could I just get a couple of things clear in my own head.

Twotankamin, first, is the fish shown below, one of these L173b sold as such by Glasers in 2009?

Second, chris1932, I am sorry I'm not sure of the history here but do I understand correctly that you imported this fish from Glasers into the US and sold them to twotankamin? Apologies if I have missed this detail in older topics.

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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by TwoTankAmin » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:22 am

Yes- I acquired all 7 fish pictured at the link I posted in my original post for this thread. I got the fish from Chris1932 who purchased them for me and I picked them up when we met at a mutual friend's house not far from where he lives soon after. I was not the only buyer at of the fish at this time. The fish were imported by a group of folks that brings in fish from various countries including, from Glaser. Chris 1932 is part of it. When I got the fish 2 were 2+ inches and the other 5 were 1.75 +/- inches TL. They went right into a tank where they stayed until they were moved at which time they were photgraphed one by one.

The pictures were taken for me by my brother who is a professional photographer using equipment too expensive for me. He has no experience shooting fish. I told him I wanted to be sure to have a shot of each fish from above, from each side and from below. I explained I wanted to get good shots of the patterning, of the eyes to show their color and the vents to help in sexing.

The camera used was Nikon D700 using a Nikon macro lens. This camera produces 2 files for every picture taken. one is called a raw and is extremely large and detailed so it can be professionally edited using advanced software. The second file is a jpg and the camera was set to produce the highest quality. I shrank this picture down from a 4,256 x 2832 pixel 5471K file to a 700x342 pixel 78K file for posting here. I am unable to upload the original sized shot but I can email them and have sent you a full size copy.

Here is a photo which appears on the Glaser site of 173s- this one is what they label as Hypancistrus spec. L 173 Nachzucht.
Image
The page it is on found at http://www.aquariumglaser.de/en/hypanci ... n_986.html
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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by Janne » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:34 am

chris1932 wrote:Janne,
Its pretty easy for you to say that were not sold as 173b. But I still have the boxes they were shipped in and packing list.
I didn't say that, I said I doubt that Glaser sold them as "L173b" because they should be more serious than that, however we all can make mistakes and so even Glaser. Not easy to id small sized Hypancistrus, but that don't change the facts, these are not and should not be called anything similar as L173. The first pictures show a deformed Hypancistrus and that is also only facts, it happens to all breeders from time to time and is nothing to get upset over... either you or TwoTankAmin have bred and grow the offsprings so the problem is probably at the German breeder that bred these.

The last pic of F. Schäfer show 2 different bred species or youngsters of WC and the fish in front is probably L173 and the one in the background is a L66 or L333 youngster.

Janne

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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by dconnors » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:09 am

In aquarium Glaser's fish archive they list 3 different types of L173...http://www.aquariumglaser.de/en/fish.ph ... 18&lang=en

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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by TwoTankAmin » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:12 am

I didn't say that, I said I doubt that Glaser sold them as "L173b" because they should be more serious than that
No Janne that is not what you said, scroll up and see what you actually wrote was:
i really doubt that these are bought from Glaser as L173b...
Chris did buy these fish from Glaser as L173b for me, so I did in essence buy these fish from Glaser as 173b. In any case I clearly stated they were bought from Glaser as 173b.
As I promised a while back, I have taken a number of photos of the 7 fish I got via Glaser in Dec of 2009.
As far as I am concerned you were saying you doubted what I said, or to put it in a less flattering way- either I was wrong because I was duped or else I was lying. The fact is the fish were bought from and sold by Glaser as 173b. And in this respect, it doesn't really matter if they are or are not 173b.
The last pic of F. Schäfer show 2 different bred species or youngsters of WC and the fish in front is probably L173 and the one in the background is a L66 or L333 youngster.
I do not care which L number that fish is- look at the head and face- it is the same as the fish in my pic which you claim is deformed, it could almost be a clone. So what are now saying is that Shafer takes pics of deformed fish and that Glaser displays pics of deformed fish on its site?

Next, lets go to your copy of Ingo Seidel's "Back to Nature Guide to L-catfishes". The following Hypancistrus appear in the book and have similarly shaped heads (and some with the large eyes) and can be found as follows:
Page 109- photo #5 an L199
Page 110- photo #2 an H. inspector and photo #4 an L004/005
Page 112- photo #5 an L201
Page 113- photo #7 an L250
Page 115- Photo #1 an L333 Poro do Moz, and photo #3 collected at Porto do Moz and either a new species or an L333 variant
Page 117- Photo #7 an H. sp, "Rio Curua"
Page 117- Photo #10 an L173 (not as short as the top one above)

Are we then to believe at least some of the fish in the book are also deformed?

Since many members here may not have a copy of this book, lets look at a few more Ingo pics on the net.
Image
Image
Image

So are you saying Ingo takes pics and this site posts pics of deformed fish???

Want to see a few more more of his pics on the net?
Image
Image

I am begining to wonder if maybe I am imaging all this?

OH- btw- here is the 4th pic of the same fish, but shot from a different angle, which I chose not to upload:
Image
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Re: L-173b from Glaser

Post by ceh » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:36 am

what did you pay for this fish here l 333 7-8 cm you can buy for 35 euro but l 173 or l173b cost 70-100 euro if you finde one

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