Which syno?

mathieu · Post by **mathieu** » 06 Feb 2003, 13:23

Hello,
I bought this catfish named as multipunctatus, however I'm almost sure that is false.
It looks like eupterus or courteti, but it looks a little bit different.
Anyone can recognize this fish?

Sorry, for the picture quality, it's a nasty little fella to capture.
Size appr. 10 cm (4 inch).

mathieu

Post by **Silurus** » 06 Feb 2003, 13:53

Definitely not multipunctatus nor eupterus. Most probably not courteti either (head looks a little too short).
Color pattern looks like that of macrostoma or macrostigma (closer to that of macrostoma), but difficult to tell without looking at the head. Can you get a closeup of the head ?

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 06 Feb 2003, 18:00

Hmm, would water conditions make a S. ocellifer that pale? If so then that would be my best guess. Strange things are happening in Syno land as we are seeing lots of odd looking fish from fish farms.

Post by **Silurus** » 06 Feb 2003, 19:07

I initially thought that it might be S. ocellifer, but the dorsal, anal and pelvic fins have fairly large spots (vs. small or no spots in S. ocellifer). The adipose fin also looks a little too short for S. ocellifer.

mathieu · Post by **mathieu** » 06 Feb 2003, 19:29

Hi Silurus/Jools,

Thanks for the help.
I was just about to say the same thing about the ocellifer. (Mine has large spots on the fins.) However, the shape of the body/head and color is about the same.
I don't think it's macrostigma. I couldn't find any picture of macrostoma on the internet, so I can't verify this one. Do you have a picture/link?
Tomorrow I'll try to take a picture of the head, I'll ask the fish to sit still for a moment

mathieu

Post by **Silurus** » 06 Feb 2003, 19:36

Looking at the original description of S. macrostoma again, it would seem that this is not your fish. Spots on the head of S. macrostoma are smaller, and the sots appear to be more elongated (they look more like flattened ovals) than in your fish (although S. macrostoma does have large spots on the fins).
One other possibility is that your fish may be one of those interspecific hybrids (ugh) that seem to be getting more common these days.

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 06 Feb 2003, 19:42

There seems to be a "large spot" variety of Synodontis nyassee (I'm only familiar with the "small spot" nyassee). nyassee's sometimes are quite pinky (i've seen wildcaughts that were beige-pink) it might be one of those??

Post by **Silurus** » 06 Feb 2003, 19:59

The large spotted njassaes I have seen all have much smaller spots on the head (see pic below):

Synodontis njassae also appears more slender.

Post by **Dinyar** » 06 Feb 2003, 20:18

I have no idea what this fish is. I do have some ideas as to what it's not.

Not S. multipunctatus, S. eupterus (no sail fin), S. ocellifer (HH correctly pointed out this has much more prominent adipose fin), S. macrostoma (doesn't enter the trade, among other things), also very unlikley to be S. nyasssae.

Mathieu, can you posssibly get us a better photo of this fish, please?

Dinyar

Tom · Post by **Tom** » 06 Feb 2003, 20:52

On page 77 of Aqualog Photo collection of African cats it shows 2 pictures of a hybrid. Although it's not exactly the same I think it's close enough to be considered. My gut feeling it's the result of a multi crossed with God knows what. I hope this stops. Mathieu- what country are you in?

Tom

mathieu · Post by **mathieu** » 06 Feb 2003, 22:07

I've been searching for pictures of syno's on the internet for a while now, and I think my fish is closet to the ocellifer. (Even the pictures of the ocellifer found on the internet differ from eachother.) I'm also starting to think this is a crossing between two species. I will go to the shop were I bought them and explain this to the owner, he might be interessed to hear this. Last week I was there he just had a new tank full of juvenile synos, again labelled as 'multipunctatus'.

Btw, I'm from The Netherlands.

mathieu

Post by **Silurus** » 06 Feb 2003, 22:52

Might be a good idea to ask where they came from. If they came from West Africa, then there is a good chance it is not a hybrid (the absolute closest I can get using Poll's revision is S. rebeli). If they weren't wild caught, well then there you have it...hybrid.

mathieu · Post by **mathieu** » 07 Feb 2003, 10:12

I tried to picture the head, these are the best I could get.
Note that the spots on its head are a little smaller than on its body.

mathieu

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 07 Feb 2003, 11:07

it still looks quite a bit like a S nyassee to me; the proportions fit, and the headspots ARE smaller.
I don't think it has anything remotely multipunctatus in it; those are more highbuilt, not to mention; there should be at least some black in the fins...

mathieu · Post by **mathieu** » 07 Feb 2003, 11:31

You might be right about the njassae. I found this link:
http://www.aquariacentral.com/species/d ... age_view=1

I guess this is the large spot njassae? This is indeed quiet close to mine fish.

The other pictures I found (e.g. on this website) of the njassae, they have all small spots, and doesn't look like mine fish.

mathieu

The.Dark.One · Post by **The.Dark.One** » 10 Feb 2003, 18:16

I did a short article on these fish in 1999 in Catfish Compendium entitled "(Not) Synodontis pardalis Boulenger, 1908".

The fish were being sold and shown as the above fish. After looking at the figure and 'examining' the type specimens of pardalis which are at the Natural History Museum (London), it became obvious they were not pardalis. I not only compared the external appearances, but also compared the structures of the teeth both in the upper and lower jaw.

My conclusion at the time (and I still feel the same) was/is that they are the true S. rebeli. The teeth, and overall pattern of the fish in the hobby match that of rebeli, and also rebeli come from Cameroon which is where the fish they were purported to be come from (pardalis). I see Heok Hee thinks they could be rebeli too.

Steve Grant

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 10 Feb 2003, 21:47

Mathieu, that link shows a wrong identified syno; that one is NOT a nyassee, but an ocellifer. I've seen many ocellifers sold off as nyassee; they make a better price....
It's a bit like the multipunctatus/petricola screw-up; all over the internet (try google, for example) you find those names labelled wrong.

A google search with "syno malawi" (s nyassee gave nothing at all) turned up one multipunctatus and one flavitaeniatus.....!

It took a bit, but if I'm not messing it up too bad; THIS is the TRUE S nyassee
at least the small spot variety:

and this one (probably the same individual )

Post by **Silurus** » 11 Feb 2003, 00:55

This MAY be the large spot variety of S. njassae

However, as an earlier post has shown, there are issues with identities from where this picture was obtained.
Still don't think your fish is a large spotted njassae, though.

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 11 Feb 2003, 10:09

Hi Siluris
your Syno looks indeed a lot like mine; even the humeral bone (is this right? I meant the backwards protruding bone above the pectoral implant) is the same shape; not to mention the elongated shape, mouth, eyesize, whiskers etc.
Maybe we'refinally on to the true S nyassee.
I can see, the Syno-pics from the OP aren't nyassee, compared to this one.

mathieu · Post by **mathieu** » 11 Feb 2003, 13:33

Hi,

I went to the shop where I bought this fish. Unfortunately I couldn't talk to the right person. Is saw they have the 'real' multipunctatus now and the ones that I bought are now labelled as 'multipunctatus Zaire'. So I went back home and searched on the internet for this species. It seems it doesn't exist (on the internet at least). Anyone heard of this? (I think I know the answer

)
Anyway, next week I'll go again to the shop and see if I can talk to the right person.

So probably I won't be able to ID this syno, too bad..
All those wrongly labelled pictures on the internet does make searching more complex. Eg take a look at this:
http://images.google.com/images?q=synod ... art=0&sa=N
The first picture it finds seems to be the same as mine (probably the same supplier as my fishshop?)

Mathieu

Post by **Dinyar** » 11 Feb 2003, 13:54

There is a "S. multipunctatus Zambia" or "Southern", but no "Zaire". The "Zaire" might suggest that it is a Central African Syno and not from the Rift Lakes at all.

Dinyar

Post by **Silurus** » 11 Feb 2003, 14:02

Which would tend to support the identity of S. rebeli (from the Sanaga River basin in Cameroun a little bit further to the north and west).

mathieu · Post by **mathieu** » 11 Feb 2003, 15:57

Ok, I think I'll call my fish rebeli (it needs a name, right?) Its probably the best choice.
Thanks for all the help. When I get some new information from the petshop, I'll write it here.

Mathieu

mathieu · Post by **mathieu** » 04 Mar 2003, 09:18

Fyi:

Just got an update from the petshop. They say this fish is definitly not from Lake Tanganyika, but it is caught somewhere in the area Zaire/Congo. And the importer didn't know the name, so (s)he gave it the name "multipunctatus zaire". Somehow I got the feeling the petshop knew this name was wrong, because he'd already asked the importer before about this fish.

Anyway, I told him that its (propably) Rebeli. I'm curious whether they'll change the labels to prevent fools like me from buying the wrong fish.

mathieu

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 05 Mar 2003, 12:04

Dinyar; the WHOLE westcoast of Lake Tanganyika is Zaire (Congo again; actually), so there are probably tons of Riftlake "Zaire"syno's.
They are most likely VERY RARE in the trade, since going into Congo/Zaire is still very risky; there's complete anarchy over there ESPECIALLY near the lakeside.
even Ad Konings couldn't do research for his latest books on the North West corner of Lake Tang, and neither Toby Veal (sort of a Steve Irwin in cichlid country) or the Brichards go there either, and that's counting....

Post by **Silurus** » 05 Mar 2003, 12:23

I'm not sure about Congo fishes being rare in the trade. Our source of unusual African cats here has been getting shipments from Congo. Not too long ago, he had a shipment of Microsynodontis from there.
He's pretty reliable as far as localities are concerned.

Post by **Dinyar** » 05 Mar 2003, 14:37

SG_Eurystomus wrote:Dinyar; the WHOLE westcoast of Lake Tanganyika is Zaire (Congo again; actually), so there are probably tons of Riftlake "Zaire"syno's.
They are most likely VERY RARE in the trade, since going into Congo/Zaire is still very risky; there's complete anarchy over there ESPECIALLY near the lakeside.
even Ad Konings couldn't do research for his latest books on the North West corner of Lake Tang, and neither Toby Veal (sort of a Steve Irwin in c*****d country) or the Brichards go there either, and that's counting....

Sid, Of course I accept your point that much of the west coast of L. Tanganyika is part of the Congo and that therefore, lots of Tang Synos could be called "Zaire synos". Apart from the anarchy, some parts of this area have also beeen affected by the recent volcano in Gombe.

Heok Hee's point that many Congo catfish enter the trade is also true.

In practice, it often seems to be the case that when importers talk of "Zaire" or "Congo Synos", they are often referring to a non-Rift Lake Syno. I think you and I know enough about Rift Lake Synos to be able to identify them in most cases. There are only a handful, and we've seen them all (lots of variation and open questions, true; maybe we haven't quite seeen them ALL, but close). I'm not equally confident of my abilty to identify riverine Congo Synos. Lots of species that I've never seen.

Dinyar

Which syno?

Which syno?

Re: Which Syno?

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