"Plecostomus" Calaveras Lake , Texas.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 17 Jul 2006, 16:03

KathyM wrote:I do apologise for getting site ownership wrong, it was implied elsewhere that it was Shane's site and I'm genuinely sorry I got it wrong.

No problem at all, where, specifically, is elsewhere?

I don't feel that this is working, I'm not going to learn anything from this.

Well, if someone gets around to posting a picture you never know.

I think the topic is jumping around a lot with SL and TL and also with wild versus captive bred populations. The biggest "commons" I've seen have all been in captivity and that's despite seeing literally hundreds of them in the wild. That's just a fraction of what Shane has encountered in his travels.

In the UK I've really not seen anything that's much over 12" SL, certainly 15" SL would be pushing it. I'm quite open to the fact they could get bigger especially when they are captive bred fishes released into the wilds of Texas.

Jools

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 17 Jul 2006, 21:03

Also, I note that the Army Corps of Engineers list L. disjunctivus as being introduced and established in Texas - how would one separate it from L. pardalis?

According to Chavez et al (2006), Pterygoplichthys pardalis has more of a dotty belly colouration, while P.disjunctivus has a more vermiculated belly pattern. P.pardalis was also noted to be more likely to have 12 rather than 11 dorsal fin rays.

This was a study carried out on introduced fish in the Philippines. I'm sure I downloaded of this site somewhere.

A max TL of 50cm was recorded for P.disjunctivus, while max TL was 51cm for P.pardalis.

MacAAA · Post by **MacAAA** » 18 Jul 2006, 05:37

I think others have answered about measuring the fish, but as the post is veering a little, I just wanted to say that it is interesting to see these fish and we'd certainly like to help ID different ones you may find.

Thanks Jools I was beginning to think I stirred up a hornets nest on this site and that was not my intention.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 18 Jul 2006, 11:26

MacAAA wrote:
I think others have answered about measuring the fish, but as the post is veering a little, I just wanted to say that it is interesting to see these fish and we'd certainly like to help ID different ones you may find.
Thanks Jools I was beginning to think I stirred up a hornets nest on this site and that was not my intention.

Heheh, yes, fishermen and the sizes of their catch eh? Never a controversial issue.

As I say, no worries, all this post needs is a tape measure, a big pleco and a digital camera.

Jools

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 18 Jul 2006, 18:06

I'm sure I downloaded of this site somewhere.

I've found it. Here it is in this post.

I would make the fish in question L.disjunctivus.

Post by **Shane** » 19 Jul 2006, 00:24

Heheh, yes, fishermen and the sizes of their catch eh? Never a controversial issue. As I say, no worries, all this post needs is a tape measure, a big pl*co and a digital camera.

Amen! Kathy and I are working out our miscommunications off line. Sorry to have hijacked your post MacAAA.
-Shane

Jorge · Post by **Jorge** » 19 Jul 2006, 00:38

Here in Madrid there is a LFS (the worst of the city, by the way) that has some kind of "fish museum" at the basement, and has a group of very big Liposarcus in a 3.000 liters tank. Measuring "by eye" I would say all of them are approximately 30-35 cm long...

here is a pic:

MacAAA · Post by **MacAAA** » 19 Jul 2006, 09:12

Jools,

Next pictures I post here of pleco from Texas will be with tape measure.

My fishing buddies think Iâ??ve gone crazy with this pleco thing.

Working on a 07/20/06 trip to Calaveras.

Iâ??ll be in Florida for next week and a half starting 07/21/06.

In my hunt for large Florida bass Iâ??ll be keeping an eye out for pleco.

Shane,

"You say hijack, I say information".

Now, if this thread turned to "El Chupacabra" (long story) I would be worried.

I've learned a lot about the pictures I have posted here.

Thank you!

Jorge · Post by **Jorge** » 19 Jul 2006, 14:18

I agree is very likely a Liposarcus disjunctivus, and a "small one". Fishbase has references of at least one fish of this species sizing 70 cm.

http://fishbase.com/Summary/speciesSumm ... sjunctivus

also, there are references of 40 cm for Philippine alien ones Bay Lagoon):

http://fishbase.com/PopDyn/PopCharList. ... vus&fc=157

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 19 Jul 2006, 16:17

I think the very large specimens are actually rather than pardalis; we will see if the promised pics come flooding in.

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 19 Jul 2006, 16:18

According to the Army Corps of Engineers article I posted a link to, the species naturalized in Texas are L. disjunctivus and L. ambrosetti, considerably larger species than L. pardalis. They even state that L. pardalis is not naturalized in the US (one single specimen found in the wild).

That said, it is not uncommon for introduced species to grow bigger than in their home territories, due to increased food availability and less competition.

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 19 Jul 2006, 16:23

And as I said in a different thread on this topic, everything grows bigger in Texas.

Dave Rinaldo · Post by **Dave Rinaldo** » 19 Jul 2006, 18:26

Chrysichthys wrote:And as I said in a different thread on this topic, everything grows bigger in Texas.

Aahhh, that's my problem.
I've been here 19 years and have gained 30 lbs

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 21 Jul 2006, 18:57

Mac,
I've found <a href='http://www.nanfa.org/default.shtml' target='_blank'>these</a> folks have a publication that's helpful. I was at my local fish club meeting recently and someone pointed out an article from the NANFA Summer, 2005 publication about these species in San Antonio(the Spring 2005 issue is currently available for download).
Amanda

sojapat · Post by **sojapat** » 21 Jul 2006, 20:09

I tink that these are just xxxl common plecos ..
Why else would they have been dumped in a fishing lake ??
No one gets rid of anything that is any good ???
Ok I am probably not banging the right drums and most people on this forum like these plecs (ME TOO)
But If they were nice rare fish they would not be there ..
Think about it ?

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 21 Jul 2006, 22:36

It doesn't quite work that way.
Tons (literally) of aquarium fish find their way into various indigenous waters, and it's a crapshoot which survive. Most don't. When something becomes established it tends to be common species, simply because they're introduced over and over, but sometimes rare species have whatever traits are needed to make it.

Or, put another way:
http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactShee ... ciesID=478

Post by **Shane** » 22 Jul 2006, 00:21

Actually I found a paper the other night stating that the L. disjunctivus population had been tracked back to a disaster at the San Antonio Zoo in the 1960s. I'll try to find the ref again.
Any other spp. that have gone feral probably came from aquarists.
-Shane
PS Found two refs of interest
http://el.erdc.usace.army.mil/elpubs/pd ... -v04-1.pdf

http://www.twdb.state.tx.us/RWPG/rpgm_r ... %20III.pdf

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 25 Jul 2006, 22:53

Ive seen big P.pardalis or something closely related at the Frankfurt Zoo...they are in a 12.000 litre paludarium with big Motoro rays and through the glass (which must be around 10 cm? thick) these plecos seem to be as big as the motoros diameter. Havent been there for a long time so I didnt check whether it was a male or female ray.
Next time Ill go there I will surely try to take pics. And ask some guide how big these measure and how old they are.

FuglyDragon · Post by **FuglyDragon** » 26 Jul 2006, 05:55

A bit off topic, but any idea why so many of these reports are military in origin ?? The US has a wildlife service of some sort dosnt it ? What interest would the military have in freshwater fish populations ?

Just curious

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 26 Jul 2006, 07:22

@fugly Werent they planning to "keep" some remote control catfishes? ;) scnr

FuglyDragon · Post by **FuglyDragon** » 26 Jul 2006, 07:25

Ah if they need to invade South America you mean... then they could have legions of highly trained plecs undertaking covert missions deep behnind enemy lines...

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 26 Jul 2006, 12:19

FuglyDragon wrote:What interest would the military have in freshwater fish populations ?

I think it's actually because (at least in Florida) the U.S. Army Corps is re-arranging waterways back to the way they originally were; in particular, to protect the Everglades from further damage and to reduce flooding. Something similar needs to be done in the Mississippi delta, as hurricane Katrina proved. Before Katrina the cost was thought to be prohibitive; but after the immense damage caused by that hurricane, I expect they'll be looking at it in a new light.

Post by **Shane** » 26 Jul 2006, 21:30

The Army Corps of Engineers (ACE) is not a very military organization. It has (according to its website) 34,600 civilian members and 650 military members. It mainly works environmental and water resource issues.
http://www.usace.army.mil/missions/index.html

-Shane

"Plecostomus" Calaveras Lake , Texas.

Forgive me ..!