blue eyed plecos

warner8 · Post by **warner8** » 03 Jun 2005, 16:11

Hi, I am an undergraduate researcher at the Univeristy of Pennsylvania. I am tryignto write a book on blue eyed plecos. I am looking for any information from the hobbysit on them. If you have kept them in the past or the present please share your experiemce with me. If you have anythingto say about them pleae do, and if you can put me in contact with anyone who has somehting to do with these guys please do. I am also lookign for pictures. I will make sure to make them copyrighted to you when published. Thanks

[email protected]

Post by **Shane** » 03 Jun 2005, 16:21

Warner8,
I recently wrote a feature article for Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine on this sp. it should be published soon.
-Shane

ZebraPleco · Post by **ZebraPleco** » 03 Jun 2005, 21:17

Heh ... that depends on which one you're going after. The Panaque cochliodon or the Panaque suttonorum/suttoni ...
Although I have to wonder if the P. suttonorum have blue eyes at all.
Anyway, here's a linky to this site's catalog for the cochliodon : http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/lo ... e/41_f.php

djw66 · Post by **djw66** » 04 Jun 2005, 07:45

ZebraPleco wrote:Heh ... that depends on which one you're going after. The Panaque cochliodon or the Panaque suttonorum/suttoni ...
Although I have to wonder if the P. suttonorum have blue eyes at all.
Anyway, here's a linky to this site's catalog for the cochliodon : http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/lo ... e/41_f.php

P. suttoni/suttonorum most definately has sky blue eyes, as I used to have one. Very striking on the fish's jet black body, and one of the most gentle larger plec I've had, unlike it's red-eyed bruiser buddy P. nigolineatus.

Dave

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 04 Jun 2005, 09:34

djw66 wrote: P. suttoni/suttonorum most definately has sky blue eyes, as I used to have one. Very striking on the fish's jet black body

You probably had Panaque cochliodon. See:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/lo ... /887_f.php

Post by **Shane** » 04 Jun 2005, 14:48

Although I have to wonder if the P. suttonorum have blue eyes at all.

I wondered this for a long time as well. Ed Ruiz in Maracaibo has been looking for this fish for years. Local fishermen have told him that it does have blue eyes.
-Shane

djw66 · Post by **djw66** » 05 Jun 2005, 09:25

Mike_Noren wrote:
djw66 wrote: P. suttoni/suttonorum most definately has sky blue eyes, as I used to have one. Very striking on the fish's jet black body
You probably had Panaque cochliodon. See:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/lo ... /887_f.php

Trust me, Mike, I DO know the differance. 35 years in the hobby, and you pretty much know what you have. I bought the fish in 1982 from the wholesaler himself, as well as P. nigrolineatus. P. suttoni is a much longer-bodied fish that cochliodon, his caudle pendecule is quite narrow, his scutes are very hard to discern, and is a deeper, velvety black than cocliodon.

Dave

djw66 · Post by **djw66** » 05 Jun 2005, 09:29

By the way, I haven't seen P. suttoni/suttonorum on dealers' lists in at least 15 years. I still ask for them . . .

Dave

Post by **Shane** » 05 Jun 2005, 13:47

Dave,
P. suttonorum has never been on any dealers list. Look at some of the past conversations on this topic or the link Mike provided to the information in the Cat-elog.
-Shane

djw66 · Post by **djw66** » 06 Jun 2005, 07:01

Shane wrote:Dave,
P. suttonorum has never been on any dealers list. Look at some of the past conversations on this topic or the link Mike provided to the information in the Cat-elog.
-Shane

Shane,

Then that makes me wonder just what I had. The body shape is quite differant than P. cocliodon - longer and lower. The snout was shorter and arched , and it was an inky black fish with striking blue eyes. It came in with a number of P. nigrolineatus. I paid $25 US each for both in 1982. The fish grew rapidly and was 14 inches when it died in 1993 after a heater malfunction, and as I said above, was one of the most gentle plecos I've ever had.

What's really odd is that Axelrod's Atlas of Aquarium Fishes and a calender put out by Tropical Fish Hobbyist have photos that are a dead ringer for my fish. They ID it as suttonorum. If they are wrong, I wonder why no one has corrected them?

Dave

Post by **Shane** » 06 Jun 2005, 13:28

Dave,
On a funny note, I have the same calender hanging here next to my computer. The pictured fish is P. cochliodon. It makes sense that your P. cochliodon were imported alongside P. nigrolineatus from Colombia. The P. nigrolineatus are captured in the Colombian llanos and the P. cochliodon were collected in the Rio Magdalena. All the fish are consolidated at exporters in Bogota and shipped from there. So they would have arrived together from Colombia, but were not collected in the same drainage.

Read Schultz' original description of P. suttonorum in the link above...
"Uniformly greyish ... basal two-thirds of the paired fins black, and the tips of these fins white; the posterior margin of dorsal is white, a narrow white bar across caudal peduncle, middle of caudal fin white then some black blotches; the tips of the rays are white."

So P. suttonorum is gray and has the first 2/3s of all fins colored black with the last 1/3 being white. The dorsal fin has a white margin and there is a white stripe across the caudal peduncle. There is a white "window" in the caudal fin and the tips of the caudal are white. This does not match your "inky black fish" at all.

What's really odd is that Axelrod's Atlas of Aquarium Fishes and a calender put out by Tropical Fish Hobbyist have photos that are a dead ringer for my fish. They ID it as suttonorum. If they are wrong, I wonder why no one has corrected them?

TFH, like all aquarium magazines, maintains huge files of every photo they have ever purchased. TFH allows "mutual unrestricted rights" when they buy your photos, so they can use them forever. Now, think of all the work Jools puts into this site keeping the catfishes up to date from a taxonomic standpoint. Imagine trying to do the same thing with actual print photos of every known family of freshwater and marine fishes! They would have to employ a full time army of taxonomists just to keep their photos up to date. Since they can not, and the people doing the article layouts are professionals in publishing not taxonomy, they use whatever name is written on the photo, correct or incorrect. Hope that explains the situation.
-Shane

ZebraPleco · Post by **ZebraPleco** » 06 Jun 2005, 16:16

I don't know where warner8 went, but I am glad that he started this thread. I am getting alot of juicy info from this thread. Thank you Shane, hope I get to read your arcticle some day. Although I am not a subscriber for TFH ... do you have any idea which issue your acticle will be published in?

warner8 · Post by **warner8** » 06 Jun 2005, 19:03

Hi guys, thanks to everyone who has been adding to this thread it is really helpful. I hope it continues

Shane where did you get your information on blue eyes from, do you mind giving me a hand? What issue of TFH should i look out for.

Also anone who has/has this pleco. could u tell me more about your experience, you know like its behavior in the aquarium, what you fed it, the cost of it when you bought it and where, and a description of the fish..

ALL POSITIVE COMMENTS ARE WELCOME.

Post by **Shane** » 06 Jun 2005, 19:45

Warner8,
My information comes from researching the scientific and hobby literature. I also lived in Colombia from 2002-2004 and have extensive contacts amongst Colombian collectors and exporters. I have no idea when TFH will publish my article.
-Shane

H.N · Post by **H.N** » 06 Jun 2005, 21:24

Hi Shane.
I was so surprised to hear that there are fisherman still
know about P. suttonorum in Maracaibo basin, W Venezuela.
The area changed so dramatically over the past several
years, as you would know. I personally never been
there, but any of my friends traveled Maracaibo area
could not bring reliable inf on P. suttonorum.

I think the specimen Schultz describing could be a juvenile
or semi adult. His discription "middle of caudal fin
white then some black blotches" matches most young fish
of big Panaque species.
Do you think P. suttonorum are still in their habitat?
Well, I will wait for your article if the answere there...

warner8 · Post by **warner8** » 07 Jun 2005, 04:20

hey shane would u mind giving me some of ur contacts, or perhaps a phone interview with u? also where did u find the literature on these fish? i need to get my hands on some of this stuff

djw66 · Post by **djw66** » 07 Jun 2005, 08:10

Shane wrote:Dave,
On a funny note, I have the same calender hanging here next to my computer. The pictured fish is P. cochliodon. It makes sense that your P. cochliodon were imported alongside P. nigrolineatus from Colombia. The P. nigrolineatus are captured in the Colombian llanos and the P. cochliodon were collected in the Rio Magdalena. All the fish are consolidated at exporters in Bogota and shipped from there. So they would have arrived together from Colombia, but were not collected in the same drainage. TFH, like all aquarium magazines, maintains huge files of every photo they have ever purchased. TFH allows "mutual unrestricted rights" when they buy your photos, so they can use them forever. Now, think of all the work Jools puts into this site keeping the catfishes up to date from a taxonomic standpoint. Imagine trying to do the same thing with actual print photos of every known family of freshwater and marine fishes! They would have to employ a full time army of taxonomists just to keep their photos up to date. Since they can not, and the people doing the article layouts are professionals in publishing not taxonomy, they use whatever name is written on the photo, correct or incorrect. Hope that explains the situation.
-Shane

Shane,
Thanks so much for the clarification - nothing like me sounding like an idiot

Next time I make an order at my lfs, NOW i'll know what to ask forjavascript:emoticon(':!:')

warner8 · Post by **warner8** » 20 Jun 2005, 18:24

SHANEE, STILL LOOKING FOR THAT INTERVIEW WITH YOU!! LET ME KNOW,
warner8

Post by **Shane** » 20 Jun 2005, 18:31

Dave at TFH said the contract was in the mail...
-Shane

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 20 Jun 2005, 19:57

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 3980890918

Does anyone else think the above fish for sale on eBay at the moment isn't quite the right shape for what we remember as the blue eyed pleco (and is P. cochliodon)?

It could just be me.

Jools

Post by **Shane** » 20 Jun 2005, 20:11

Jools,
Looks normal to me. It is just big and old.
-Shane

warner8 · Post by **warner8** » 20 Jun 2005, 20:20

Shane, could i please set up an inerview with you, whethe it be online or on the phone? id like to discuss the blue eyed pleco with you. please send me a pm when you see this message it would mean a lot.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 20 Jun 2005, 23:05

warner8 wrote:Shane, could i please set up an inerview with you, whethe it be online or on the phone? id like to discuss the blue eyed pl*co with you. please send me a pm when you see this message it would mean a lot.

Well, why don't you send him a pm or email and not clog up this topic with such a post?

Jools

kev · Post by **kev** » 21 Jun 2005, 11:37

hi Jools i thought that blue eye looked a bit weird/strange

. It was also on Aquarist Classifieds. Did it ever sell?

Kev

Post by **Shane** » 21 Jun 2005, 11:51

The buyer was listing it at 10 inches, which would be as big as anything recorded from the wild.
-Shane

warner8 · Post by **warner8** » 21 Jun 2005, 18:05

jools don't be mean

there will be no more clogs

blue eyed plecos

blue eyed plecos

thanks and lets keep this going!!!!!

contacts

Shanee

Shane

Re: Shane