rescue with a synodontis ill-treated

[stine]

Hi here,
(I'm sorry in advance with my english, i will try to do my best but my mothertongue is french)
well, I'm here to get some help because I took away a catfish from a dentist which had this fish. Be careful it's really awful to see this poor fish ! I really need you to help me in finding the exact species because I want the best life conditions for him !
I have it since one week and I can see clearly he's getting a little better ! I want to offer a real better life now so i need your knowledge to get the answer at the following questions :

1) after seeing a lot of pictures of catfish, I'm nearly sure he's a Synodontis Eupterus, can you confirm ?
2) what is the minimum tank he will need to be in a good conditions for the reste of his life ? (31 gallons ? 50 ?)
3) which other species can I added with him when he'll be cured and safe ?

Be careful before watching theses pictures, it can hurt...
the first picture is the fish in the dentist's tank, when I saw it


the first is dated from 25 of december, the second is from today



thanks in advance for your help, for him

[Jools]

It is sad and also really quite amazing how this fish has been treated and still survives. Synos are tough.

This is, I think,

Synodontis eupterus

. I would suggest a hospital tank, and being fed small amounts several times a day. Good water quality, keep it a little warm (~78F) and no other fishes to ensure no infection.

Jools

[stine]

thank you to answer Jools :

yeah he's in a hospital tank actually, and I feed him very carefully (because he was fed once a week before maybe sometimes once only in two weeks...) It's because of the good water quality now that he's getting better each day ! I'm very surprised as well he's still alive after this treatment ! (he was burned as well during a wood washing with a very hot water...)

so ok, you think the same as me for eupterus ! that's good ! Do you know more details about my other questions ?

[dpm1]

That's certainly not well looked after fish and I wish you the best. I've seen some poor looking rescue fish but never a synodontis looking so starved.

As said by jools often the best start to recovery is simply clean water and a decent diet.

[N0body Of The Goat]

A healthy Synodontis eupterus would eventually need something like a 150x45x45cm tank, because 20cm SL should easily be possible.

But this poor fish, it might not get anywhere near that size, he/she has been badly looked after by the dentist. I suspect a 120x40x50cm tank might be more than enough, but I would be thrilled to hear if this catfish somehow recovered and reach full adult size.

It is really hard to say what other fish would be a good idea, it depends so much on how recovery goes with you. A very safe option in my opinion would be a trio (or more) of Ctenopoma acutirostre (Leopard Bushfish), these fish are very relaxed with anything they cannot swallow and they are not fast eaters. If recovery goes well, a group of Congo Tetra might be an option, but my group of ~5cm SL juveniles react quite quickly to food.

Good luck with the recovery, lots of small meals, regular (every 1/2 days) small water changes and lots of fish love!

[dpm1]

Couple of profile pages

http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/spe ... ies_id=121
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/sy ... s-euptera/

[stine]

Thank you for the answer
Well i will say he (or she) would be something as 12-13 cm long for the size.

Actually i have an west african tank size 120x40x50 with a couple of pelvicachromis kribensis "edea" and 13 Epiplaty dageti and 10 hyp. Caudalis (tetra) do you think once in a good health i can put him with them ? I think there will be maybe some problems with epiplaty dageti because they are small.

[bekateen]

Hi Stine,

As affirmed above, that poor fish looks awful, and I wish you the best as you nurse it back to health. This makes me wonder - did your dentist have any other fish in the same aquarium, and how healthy were the other fish? If this syno is so neglected, then other fish may also be in trouble in the same tank.

(I'm sorry in advance with my english, i will try to do my best but my mothertongue is french)

As for your English language skills, your original post was very clear. I don't know how other members of this website feel about this subject, but I would offer you my own view on the matter of "mothertongue:" While this is a website written in English and it is designed to operate in the English language, I have seen a couple of members who have posted in another language (French in the examples I am remembering), either because they don't speak English, or because their English was not fluent enough for them to express exactly what they wanted to say. If you need to write in your own mothertongue, whether French or another language, then I myself am happy to see that. Since I am an English speaking person on an international website, the presence of these other language posts reminds me that English is not the only language in the world, and the posts help me feel more "connected" to my fish-loving friends in other countries. Moreover, when I was a student, French was my second language and I enjoy the opportunity to refresh myself in regards to my ability to read French.

I suppose that if too many posts are written in languages other than English, the website would collapse out of difficulty to communicate (a veritable Tower of Babel?). And perhaps other members on this site, especially members who have been here longer than myself, might feel differently than I do. So I am not advocating a language free-for-all. However, if occasionally someone, like yourself, needs to write in their mothertongue to express an idea, I would say go ahead.

Bonne soirée, Eric

[stine]

Thanks for your sweet answer ! Don't worry I just love english langage it reminds me when I was an au-pair in england for six months but it was 10 years ago so i've lost a lot of my english lol

About other fish in the tank of the dentist : they were other fishes but all i could see in this tank was some bones and the dentist admit that he has no more times to look after fishes so he won't take other fishes (that s a great news no ? )
And he's not my dentist but the one of my friend who took a picture to show me the "strange fish" ! I couldn't have a dentist like him after seeing how he's no concerned by the suffering of an animal !

[Richard B]

That is the most neglected syno i've ever seen!

In cases like this i find the tetra gel foods allow weight to be put on quickly - tetra delica

[stine]

Actually he's seems regaining appetit with some tetra food especially for catfish (not the tablet but the small pellets), he likes novofect as well (which is good for a little spirulin inside) and he likes artemias as well ! If you think tetra delica is much better that the one i'm using, i'll look forward to find it for him!
here's a picture from this morning, Am i dreaming or he has a little belly now ??
In red, all the good evolution I can see day by day ! I'm really happy because he's stomach is on again (I can see it with the state of the tank this morning lol) I really hope he will be in a good condition

[dpm1]

Getting the fish through the first 24hrs and having it feeding (amd expelling waste) is always a good sign.

[unblinded]

Wow! I wasn't expecting it to look that bad. Much like Richard says "That is the most neglected syno I've ever seen " also. Please keep us posted on the progress you make with it. It would be wonderful to see "after" pics where it looks like a syno again and less like he flesh and bones in the pictures. Good on you for rescuing this poor fish.

[Birger]

It is important with synos...as most fish, do not feed too much at one time when in this condition...it will still eat all it can but the system can not take it... It is possible to damage the system with too much food. I realize you would think how it could hurt worse but it could happen.

Slow and steady is best.

It will be great to see a record of the recovery...if it makes it. Good on you for taking this fish on!!

Birger

[stine]

ok I will be very carefully in feeding him ! for information i give to him for example on a day : two pellets in the morning / one quarter of novofect for the midday / then two pellets in the evening (i suppose it's not that much but when i know that he was fed once in a week or twice a month... )
(this is very small pellets like the head of a pin !) you think it's ok ?

For the evolution, today he's really different, he seems more "living" ? (vivant in french) before he was staying in a corner of the tank hospital very quiet but now, he's going everywhere in the tank ! he's interacting a lot with us ! I managed to put a hiding place but he absolutely don't care about it lol he prefer to look at us !

I will be happy to share his evolution with you ! It's so amazing to see him recovering so quickly ! I could'nt imagine now to give him to another person ! If he survive, then I'll keep him with me to look after him ! I'm just in love with him ! I'm thinking about how I will do with my african tank ! I'll find a solution he deserves it

at the beginning each time I was looking at him, it was hurting me very badly !!

anyway thanks for all of your advices

to see the difference, just put the both pictures side by side :
25 of december (first pic) then one from yesterday

[N0body Of The Goat]

Thank you for the answer
Well i will say he (or she) would be something as 12-13 cm long for the size.

Actually i have an west african tank size 120x40x50 with a couple of pelvicachromis kribensis "edea" and 13 Epiplaty dageti and 10 hyp. Caudalis (tetra) do you think once in a good health i can put him with them ? I think there will be maybe some problems with epiplaty dageti because they are small.

This tank sounds perfect if "he" recovers well in quarantine for at least one month. It will be safer to catch the Kribs, change the layout a little, add the Synodontis and then add the Kribs back.

The panchax might be ok, they might need moving, my guess it that fully grown ~5cm SL adults should be safe with the catfish.

Alestopetersius caudalis are lovely characin dithers, providing you are able to stop the males giving each other nasty flank wounds during multi-fish spiral fights! I lost most of my 13 group before rehoming the last few several years back (not long after I started hobby), my 8 Alestopetersius cf. sp.1 and 6 Phenacogrammus interruptus are much easier to look after. ;)

Sounds like he is settling in well, I still cannot get over how bad he looked when you rescued him and how he was still alive in that awful state.

Are you using any medication for that "angry" open sore on his head?

[stine]

It's funny yesterday evening I was thinking about a compromise as this :
(because of the scratches on my 225L, one of my friend gives me a brilliant new tank of 260L) so in this future 260L i could imagine the synodontis with the caudalis and one friend told me I can put a couple of chromidotilapia or benitochromis with them.

and in my 120L the couple of Pelvicachromis kribensis with the Epiplaty dageti (because some of them are less big than 5cm and they do babies several times)!

the synodontis is such big I would be afraid to put it with my rare couple of Pelvicachromis (ex-taeniatus) "Edea"

for the Caudalis, yes I can see the male fight a little with the others males caudalis but as long as they are only 3 males with 7 females, life is quiet together^^ At the beginning I would take the P. interruptus but some of my friends told me my tank was a little small for them so I choose the caudalis^^ (but really, they are like sheep but in fishes lol behaviour really weird lol)

I'm absolutely not using any medication (I'm too much new in aqua so I never used any medecine ever with the fish). I guess it's only good water and health recovery that makes him creating again red cells but when I saw this red I was afraid it was a bad sign... but no

I agree, about how bad he looked, it was difficult to realise it's at least a fish when I sawy him !

[stine]

I decided to show the evolution of this catfish on my aqua-blog, for those who are interested : it's here :
http://stinaquarium.over-blog.com/

ps : but it's in french

[jodilynn]

I am literally rendered speechless...

There is not a place hot enough in hell for what that S.O.B. did to that poor fish! Unfortunately, fish are not looked at like dogs or cats (or even birds) so it isn't like you can report the bastard to the authorities!

Poor, poor thing. I cannot even imagine how it was even alive. That is MONTHS AND MONTHS of neglect, not "oh I only fed it a couple times a week".

You deserve blessings for helping out that poor fish. I don't think I would have even attempted that. I wish you luck and please keep us updated on the poor little guy!

Peace and Blessings, a fellow Syno Fan!

[stine]

thank you for the support ! you're sweet !
Well to give some fresh news : he gained energy day by day ! Tomorrow I'll take a picture to show how quick he's recovering ! He's not afraid at all by me, when you come closely to the hospital tank, he's coming immediately and looking at you ! it's really so cute !

I'm looking forward to see him in my 260 liters because my hospital tank is a really small one ! I don't like to see him in such a small place to move in but it's better than nothing as long as he was really not planned at all to have it

the most amazing in his recovery is the "skin" (don't know in english how to say if for a fish lol) and the fins that are growing again

[jodilynn]

Don't rush getting him into a bigger tank, a 10 gallon is more than sufficent for a hospital tank.

I never had one until the owner of my fave LFS basically put it into these terms; it is cheaper to medicate a small tank, you can regulate the feeding of the sick fish, they are isolated and not being harrassed by the fish that aren't sick, and all around it is a much better arrangement for your recuperating friend!

Think of it this way, this is probably like a SPA for "Lucky". It's warm, the water is clean, there are regular feedings, and he has love and attention from YOU!

I had a 7 inch Synodontis Decoras in a 10 gallon hospital tank for several weeks as he recovered from a nasty bacterial infection after he tangled with my Raphael cats and got banged up. Of course he is right back in *their* log laying on them, but I think they have hopefully called a truce and aren't hurting each other anymore!

[stine]

don't worry jodilynn, he will stay in his 10 gallon hospital tank at least a month for the reasons you have mentionned

Did you have any pictures of your synodontis ? I really discover this kind of fish with this poor one ! but I already loved them ! They interact a lot with human, i'm very surprised^^^I mean I have some other fish that have not the same behaviour with me^^

today I tried to give him some red worms (not sure about the translate) he was totaly mad, swimming everywhere to eat them ! it was great to see him so much interested in food ! I carry on trying to give him in very small quantities pellet for catfish, a little novofect, some artemias and now some red worms !

I'm going to take a picture of him today and I will show him here^^

[stine]

well bad surprise while taking pictures of him ! I could see that his left eye (well not th eye but the bottom of it) is like a blister (cloque en français) ! Hope it's not a real bad news :/
on my blog, you will be able to see it (the third pictures)http://stinaquarium.over-blog.com/
Can I do something for him against that ?

[jodilynn]

Awwww look he has little fins! YAY!

[jodilynn]

He may have banged it on the heater? Synos are unfortunately famous for hiding/hanging on heaters! I know people here recommend a heater guard. I think maybe your local petstore can talk to you about one?

Do you have any medication in the tank?

No, I don't have any pics of my "Leo" that I can post. He's just big and dark brown with really nice long fins with trendils. He's, uh, quite well fed! He looks like your typical Featherfin. The gal at the LFS calls them "stomachs with fins" ! Pretty accurate description!

He will come out, usually about 8 p.m., and start cruising the tank, over on the side I don't have lit. If I go by the tank he'll kind of glide up the glass, begging for food. He, out of the four Synos in the tank, is the least shy and most active.

Now I'm worried about the blister! I hope he's ok! Hopefully one of the "wiser" catfish people will pop on here and give their advice!

(oh and not to be political or anything but my condolences about the terrorist attack in your country. Please know France and it's citizens are in our prayers).

[stine]

Thank you about your support about what's happening in france actually. It was a lot of emotion while this minute of silence made by a huge people everywhere.

Well im really happy about the apparition of the fins

I will look if its the heater that could do this problem on his eye. Hope it will be fine. But i dont use any medecine just good water and food (and love because im talking a lot to him (i know im mad lol) watching him a lot but he's watching me as well.

[jodilynn]

Probably a good idea not to medicate the tank. It could overly tax his already very compromised immune system. Keep up with the good food and clean water !

If you go down towards the bottom of the first page of this forum there is a thread titled "Is this a Hybrid" by Dragonrat there are some pictures of his beautiful Featherfin there. That is basically what my Leo looks like, but his fish has much longer trendils on his fins (and Leo's are pretty impressive!).

And, no, you aren't "mad" for talking to a fish. I talk to mine all the time. Hell, I've had more productive conversations with my German Shepherd than with my kids.

[stine]

Wouaou i've seen the leo's catfish really beautiful. I know my poor one wont ever be like him but i'm sure my little frog will become a beautiful fish with perhaps less fins
He was in the dentist' tank for two years, so if he's 3 years old he can live how many years ? I suppose his life could be shorter by the fact he was ill-treatened ?

[Richard B]

I hope he is doing well - many synos can easily live to over 20 years so there could well be a long time ahead despite the earlier mistreatment by the former owner.

As regards the ID, I have a suspicion this is a hybrid (part eupterus) that was supposedly synodontis galinae - the blunted head would be a possible trait.

[Richard B]

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photo of 'Galinae' taken from the web