Home-made pleco spawning caves

[bekateen]

@TwoTankAmin, Thanks for sharing. I guess it's just my inexperience, but from various posts I've seen, and by looking through several BLOGs, I had inaccurately developed an impression that the Hypancistrus and a couple of other genera seem to breed a lot in the square caves, whether made of clay or slate. I guess I'm way off base there.

No surprise about the BNs; my ABNs have utilized any size cave I've given them, even when the caves were clearly too small for them (the smaller caves were intended for a clown pleco in the same tank, but the BNs just took over; LOL). Likewise, I placed some very narrow caves in my clown pleco breeding tank, so that the 2 month old fry would have a place to go, and one of the dumb adults, the smallest adult male (the one known as bad dad #2), left his bigger cave where he had previously spawned, and took over this tiny cave. He doesn't seem to realize that NONE of the females will ever fit their fat bodies into his little cave. Until he moves back to his previous, bigger cave, he's gonna be pretty lonely!

@Marine590622, That's very creative. I expect those would be fine for cichlids and plecos like BNs, but personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable using the resin method with my Panaqolus (or other plecos like them) because of their reputation for chewing everything. Food safe or not, I wouldn't want them to eat the epoxy. But this construction idea just reinforces my view that we can have lots of different caves for different uses.

Cheers, Eric

[bekateen]

Here is an idea of what happens in nature...

Jools, how big are the openings to these caves? Some of the genera you mention as being present here get pretty large.

Here are two more caves I made, alongside the first cave. Both new caves have 1/4" thick walls, just like the first cave.

Both new caves are made of a mix of terra cotta and "white" clay. I took small pieces of each type of clay and then flattened them together with the rolling pin to get this look. The round cave was made using clay pieces about the size of a very large grape. When rolled together, this created a striped effect (of which I'm not impressed). So for the burrito shaped cave, I used pieces of clay about the size of a small grape. This created more of a blotched effect, but it is still not the effect I am looking for. For my next caves, I will make the clay pieces even smaller before mixing, and I may allow them to blend a little (but not to the point of color homogeneity). ... I still don't know how well they will perform in the kiln, whether or not they will fracture apart along color lines; I'll just have to wait to discover that.

After flattening each sheet of clay, I sprinkled kosher sea salt on the surface which will become the outside of the cave, then I pressed the salt into the clay using the rolling pin. Once finished forming the caves, I let them air-dry overnight, then the next morning I briefly and gently rinsed them under running water to dissolve and rinse away the salt crystals, creating the impression pattern you see here.

The round cave is 9.5" long and has a slight D-shape to its opening, which measures 1.5" x 1.25" internally (I'm not sure why I made it so long... Do any twig catfish spawn in caves?!? LOL) . The burrito cave is 7.5" long, with an internal opening of 2.5" x 1.5".

[Marine590622]

You can also mix glass with the clay and fire them together. This leaves a smooth texture, but a wide variety of color options can be achieve.

[Jools]

The holes are every size. From zebra pleco sized to big enough to fit an ichthyologist in.

Yes, we tested it.

Jools

[TwoTankAmin]

big enough to fit an ichthyologist in

OK, but can a pair of ichthyologists spawn in it?

[CharlieM9]

big enough to fit an ichthyologist in

OK, but can a pair of ichthyologists spawn in it?

Given the correct parameters (and enough beverage of choice), I am sure it could happen!

[bekateen]

LOLOLOL... What were we talking about again? This is too funny.

[Marine590622]

here are some pics

[Marine590622]

These are just some of the Granite ones. I still have others to post, but I lost track of where the photos are and I don't have all of the caves at this time.

[bekateen]

Those are impressive. They do not look like they were easy to make. Thanks for searching up these pictures. Approximately how large are these, both overall (exterior dimensions) and internally (cave bore/depth)?

[Marine590622]

I no longer have those but have some other pictures where you can see my hands holding them. No they were not easy to make litterally between 10 and 40 house.

Although I can now make them much more efficiently by using the rotten granite splitting it, cutting groves on the interior faces and then using superglue to reassemble the peices.

Here is one the opening was about 2 inches and the depth about 6.5 inches. This worked well for Ancistrus SP.

Hopefully I will have time to break down my tropheus 120 this evening and stip them. If I do I will pull out some of the marble caves I have in there and take some photos.

[Marine590622]

Oh, lately instead of making caves, I have made a habit of shopping the nic nac shelves at goodwill, Saint Vincint Depaul and other thrirt stores.

ceramic pottery in all shapes and sizes can be had cheap and will often work for structure in the fish room.

[Marine590622]

Oh on on the resin caves, I have used these for 4 plus years, in the beginning, I would only use them with the Ancistrus Sp. I have since used them with the L104, l144 with no problems, I plan to use them with the l46s, l181s, and l271 groups I am picking up shortly.

[Narwhal72]

I really like the look of those granite caves. Very nice.

[Marine590622]

Yeah, but not something that I would consider a commerical deal. If you value you time as low as $5.00 per hour at a minimum you would have to be charging $50.00 for labor, not to include raw materials, (admittedly cheap) and wear and tear on your tools, which can be quite expensive, but having had to give up drinking, I had time on my hands and I enjoy artistic pursuits... Several members in our club have them. I have gifted folks with them. Would you consider a trade for the l271's?

[bekateen]

Thanks for the info. I understand the thrift store shopping approach, although it is not my first preference.... I was just about to write that I've stopped doing the thrift store thing only because I wanted to get caves that looked more natural (rather than buying, for example, a Mickey Mouse-shaped vase at the thrift store); but in fairness, there's also nothing very "natural"-looking about the caves I made this week ( ). I do tend to think that real bamboo caves look "more" natural than random vases, etc., since bamboo itself is natural. And there is a certain earthen appearance to natural clay, as opposed to glass or lacquered or glazed ceramic objects. But on a budget, anything of the right size and shape works better than nothing at all!

Cheers, Eric

[Narwhal72]

Would you consider a trade for the l271's?

I like them. But not that much. I already have just about all the caves I will ever need and I paid a pretty penny for the L271 so I would need to make at least a chunk of it back on the sale.

Andy

[Marine590622]

No sweet Andy, I put that out there to make the point that while I enjoy the creative side of it working with stone, is not a way to make money for the fish room.

[bekateen]

Two more structures, one a duplex which I tried to shape like a stone with irregular sides, and the other a typical burrito, but with a pinched triangle opening: Both have internal caves which measure 8 inches deep. The interior of the stone's caves are very large but the openings are purposefully narrowed. Hopefully, this will allow any larger plecos I might buy (or my mustard spot plecos when they are full grown) to squeeze in the front and still block it, but leave lots of wiggle room inside for a plump female to lay her eggs.

I used both terra cotta and white natural clay. I prepared them by taking lumps of each color and passing it over a cheese grater, to create shreds of brown and white clay. These were gently blended to preserve some color distinction, then compressed and rolled out as usual to form the caves. The stone-shaped cave was sprinkled with both normal table salt and kosher salt (a more coarse grain) to give external texture. The burrito is smooth.

In general, I like the way these caves look, but I am still nervous about the kiln firing - I don't want to use the kiln until I have plenty of caves to fire all at once, but since this is the first time I've ever done this, I may find out that my techniques are not good enough for kiln firing and I may have regrets with a bunch of broken or cracked caves when I'm done. I've used only about half of my clay so far, so I think this is actually a good place to stop and schedule a firing; then I can take what I learn from that to use the rest of the clay.

[bekateen]

Cave #5, the burrito with a pinched triangular opening: 8-9" long.

[Mol_PMB]

Great thread
The only caves I have made myself have been wooden, and my L397s love them
I started with a chunk of fallen and dried-out oak branch, and drilled/bored holes about 25mm-40mm diameter and about 100mm deep. I only ever see their tails now...

[bekateen]

I often read that caves should be about twice the length of the fish, so that a male can fit inside and also trap a female (This explains why I am making my caves so long). This certainly describes my clown plecos - they bury themselves so deep in their caves that I can almost NOT see them when they are way in the back. But I have also seen my male ABN quite happy to trap a female in a cave that is only barely longer than she is - once she is inside, the male can just get his head and pectoral fins in the entrance of the cave to block/trap her in, and the rest of his body, from the middle of the pectorals back, sits outside the cave.

The only caves I have made myself have been wooden, and my L397s love them
I started with a chunk of fallen and dried-out oak branch, and drilled/bored holes about 25mm-40mm diameter and about 100mm deep. I only ever see their tails now...

How long are your

L397

s? Their CLOG page gives no max body length, but since yours have spawned, obviously the caves you've made are more than desirable to your fish. If your caves are about 100mm deep, how long are the fish?

Cheers, Eric

[Marine590622]

So here are some more pics, The caves in a tank
and then laid out on the floor with a 5 gallon bucket for scale. In that picture I included the resin caves I still have in the fish room as well.

[bekateen]

I can imagine my fish hiding in the black donut-shaped cave. I like the Easter Island head. Are the statues just decor, or are there caves hidden inside? Cool.

[Marine590622]

Two more structures, one a duplex which I tried to shape like a stone with irregular sides, and the other a typical burrito, but with a pinched triangle opening: Both have internal caves which measure 8 inches deep. The interior of the stone's caves are very large but the openings are purposefully narrowed. Hopefully, this will allow any larger plecos I might buy (or my mustard spot plecos when they are full grown) to squeeze in the front and still block it, but leave lots of wiggle room inside for a plump female to lay her eggs.

I used both terra cotta and white natural clay. I prepared them by taking lumps of each color and passing it over a cheese grater, to create shreds of brown and white clay. These were gently blended to preserve some color distinction, then compressed and rolled out as usual to form the caves. The stone-shaped cave was sprinkled with both normal table salt and kosher salt (a more coarse grain) to give external texture. The burrito is smooth.

In general, I like the way these caves look, but I am still nervous about the kiln firing - I don't want to use the kiln until I have plenty of caves to fire all at once, but since this is the first time I've ever done this, I may find out that my techniques are not good enough for kiln firing and I may have regrets with a bunch of broken or cracked caves when I'm done. I've used only about half of my clay so far, so I think this is actually a good place to stop and schedule a firing; then I can take what I learn from that to use the rest of the clay.

Eric, I really like those two. I would love to see those fired with a wood firing process so the end finish would look something like these.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... rN46fSHhMw

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... gdom62clHQ

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... l-pXzypIBi

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... 0pPYj--_oC

Between the texture from the work you did, the texture from the glaze, and the stonelike nature of the finish, I think you would be really pleased, I am pretty sure you can find wood fired kilns with in an hour of were you are at. The artist I got my first wood fired piece from moved to the west coast because the wood firing process is so popular out there.

[bekateen]

Thanks for the pictures. Yes, I agree that the look of a wood kiln should enhance the appearance of the caves, in particular I would describe it as a more weathered look, giving the caves a less manicured appearance. There probably are wood fired kilns near me, so I'll keep asking around. I contacted my local pottery club, and from that group I've gotten responses from two people with kilns, but those are both gas or electric.

Since I have some concern about how well my caves will survive the firing process, I think I'll simply run this first group of caves through any kiln I can get. Then once I know my caves are okay, I'll pursue the wood kilns.

Thanks again. Cheers,
Eric

[Marine590622]

The easter island heads are more decor then caves but there is a hollow down the back that is 1/2 an inch wide by 6 inches long by 2.5 inches deep. I thought it would be possible to make the slot wider, but with the quality of the marble I was working with, as I get any nearer the outside edge I risk blowing out the side, and that size slot place when the heads are placed properly in a circle with hornwort in the middle, the grouping of heads makes a great hiding place for any tropheus fry I might miss. Keep me posted on your progress with the caves.

I got to say this thread has motivated me to get some fresh stone to play with.

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The only caves I have made myself have been wooden, and my L397s love them
I started with a chunk of fallen and dried-out oak branch, and drilled/bored holes about 25mm-40mm diameter and about 100mm deep. I only ever see their tails now...

Happy fish.

I think a few people have had success with Oak breeding caves and

Panaqolus

spp. Personally I think a wooden cave that the males can extend themselves is the likeliest route to successful breeding.

These are Irene's

Panaqolus sp(l169)

<http://www.planetcatfish.com/cotm/cotm. ... le_id=179>, she still keeps Loricariids, but I think she might have sold her L169.

There was a guy in Gloucester (UK) making the Oak caves, but I'm not sure he still is. If you can find dead Robinia (R. pseudoacacia), the branches are naturally hollow, and I think the same applies to Walnut (Juglans spp.) and Hickory (Carya spp.), although I haven't seen branches from them.

Bristol plec breeder "theGeeman" had

Hypancistrus sp(l260)

breed in a floating Robinia branch (the bark is very persistent and buoyant) in a tank with only vertical water flow (via air filter).

cheers Darrel

[Marine590622]

Hi all,

The only caves I have made myself have been wooden, and my L397s love them ...There was a guy in Gloucester (UK) making the Oak caves, but I'm not sure he still is. If you can find dead Robinia (R. pseudoacacia), the branches are naturally hollow, and I think the same applies to Walnut (Juglans spp.) and Hickory (Carya spp.), although I haven't seen branches from them. ...

cheers Darrel

I would avoid the walnuts as they have toxins in the wood. Black walnut in particular.

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I would avoid the walnuts as they have toxins in the wood. Black walnut in particular.

Probably a good idea.

cheers Darrel