"Like" feature?

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"Like" feature?

Post by Shane »

Jools,
Does the new software allow a "like" feature for postings? I am often torn between wanting to be supportive of someone's accomplishment and not wanting to clog the forum with 1-2 word postings of congrats, nice, good job, etc.

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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by Jools »

No, it doesn't I don't think although I am fully supportive of the idea (and a dislike, both being anonymous, which allows balance and helps people get a sense of what other find useful and what they do not). I will check through the older suggestions as I seem to recall this has been suggested before.

There are only a handful of modifications (or extensions as they are now called) for the new software. I will check back to see if there is a like feature forthcoming.

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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by NCE12940 »

One forum I'm on has this feature as well as showing the person who *liked* the post.
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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by Marc van Arc »

Jools wrote:a like and a dislike, both being anonymous
I think this feature is rather useless (see FB), but if you are really going to do this, at least don't make it anonymous. Imo someone has the right to know who dislikes his/her posts - and why.
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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by bekateen »

I agree with Marc. I don't mean that a person who likes or dislikes a post needs to explain themselves, but that an anonymous like or dislike is rather meaningless and carries no weight.
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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by TwoTankAmin »

I am one who comes down strongly on the whole +/Like stuff. For the most part it is nothing more than a popularity contest and does more harm than good.

If you like what I posted and want to say so, then explain in a few words why you liked it. Similarly, if you disliked it, give a brief explanation why. Anything short of that seems to be a waste of time, imo.

If you wish to institute such a system of +1/-1 on the forum, please have a way that members can opt out of participating (that is having their posts rated).

If folks want to do +1, go to Facebook. (Speaking of which this is the best explanation I have seen for why I will never be on FB https://stallman.org/facebook.html )
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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by Jools »

I would caution against the comparison of Facebook as it is not what I envisage. Furthermore, I would take the council of people who have used (and moderated) on PlanetCatfish and Facebook for a few years as the best advisors on that IF I was going to do that. It's a very easy thing to dismiss, but a much harder thing to understand the deeper positives.

However, the kind of think I would look at (if I was going to build the feature from scratch) would be more akin to what's going on at stackoverflow.com. There is a particularly charming implementation over at this English usage site: http://english.stackexchange.com/questi ... il-journey.



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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by Shane »

I am not looking for Facebook or a popularity contest. Just a way to show people I have read their post and appreciate and respect their accomplishments without clogging up the forum. Agree it should not be anonymous. If Marc "likes" something I am doing with auchenipterids that would tell me I am on the right track.

I do not see any reason for a dislike. If someone is doing something wrong you need to take the time to explain why. A "dislike" with no context is not helpful.
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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by bekateen »

I "like" Shane's post. (I.e., I agree with his points)
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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by Bas Pels »

Being supported by people who know about catfish would be very helpfull, but 20 anonymus likes would, as stated before, tell me next to nothing.

This can be solved 2 ways, I think. Either it could be possible to restict the goup who can like, or the likes are not anonymus.

I think the first is by far the easiest accomplished. But it would require maintenance - after all, someone will have to grant the like permission - that would most likely be Jools.
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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by Jools »

Not necessarily, for example, you may automatically get to like or dislike if you've posted X times, or have been on the forum for over Y months or have contributed Z.

Can I make the point that liking or disliking would be restricted to registered users - not everyone on the web or indeed limited as per my first sentence.

Likes, or dislikes, tell you that your post is good or bad. I am not in the school of thought that everyone at school race day should get a prize...

Also, and this is a key thing. Are we talking about +1/-1 on the first post on a thread or any post on a thread? I think a lot of you may be thinking it's the latter but I have taken Shane's original question to mean the former. The sites I linked to are about the same concept but applied to the answer.

Or, to put it another way are we:

a) +1/-1 on the first post, e.g. rating the question - useful in finding cool posts.
b) +1/-1 on any post, e.g. rating forum interaction - useful in crowd-managing forum users
c) +1/-1 on not the first post, e.g. rating the best answer - self evident

Any combination of some or all of the above is also possible but begins to get pretty complex.

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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by Shane »

Jools,
I would say "like" any post. This would be especially helpful on ID threads. Say I post "What is my moth cat?" and you answer and then HH and Medaka "like" your response. That is now an ID I know I can take to the bank. Maybe this is closest to C above, but would only include +1 responses.

Still not seeing the utility of "dislike." If HH dislikes your post to my ID question does that mean he disagrees? That is really not helpful to me getting an ID. If he disagrees with your ID he should post why so that everyone can benefit from his reasoning.
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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by Jools »

Re dislike. It appears there is some confusion between like and dislike with agree and disagree.

Some examples. If a poster was regularly regurgitating knowledge secondhand rather than personal experience, or if they had an offcolour style then this would be a good use of dislike. OR USING CAPS! :-) The idea being it aggregates and over time helps a regular improve.

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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by bekateen »

I can also see the not-anonymous, like-only (no dislike) of any post in a thread applied in a different context, not just as a vote of agreement to a fish ID or answer to a question. There have been many instances in the PC forum, at least one going on right now, where a fish keeper has been blessed or surprised with a new fish of theirs spawning and they want to share their good news and ask for advice. Usually several people will post short responses that say nothing more than "Congratulations" or "Good job." I too might like to commend the OP (even the the egg laying might not have been reported in the first post of the thread) and yet I might hesitate to do so because I don't want to make the thread that much longer with simply a congratulatory note. In that context, I'd like to be able to "like" the post in which the egg laying was reported in order to affirm/support the OP without extending the thread. And if anyone clicks on the number of "likes" that post has gotten, the names of the "likers" (I don't know what else to name the responding people who liked the post) would appear, or conversely the names of "likers" would be permanently displayed under, above, or beside the post (yes, I admit this is how Facebook operates).

This may sound like weird thinking, but after two or three other people have already said "congratulations," especially if someone along the way has already posted a more extensive reply with advice perhaps, I feel weird seeing the thread later and just saying something affirming.
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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by bekateen »

Jools wrote:Some examples. If a poster was regularly regurgitating knowledge secondhand rather than personal experience, or if they had an offcolour style then this would be a good use of dislike. OR USING CAPS! :-) The idea being it aggregates and over time helps a regular improve.
Jools, this is where I believe Shane's point about no dislike/disagree is valid. In a situation like the one you describe, I believe it would be best handled with a polite and grace-filled verbal response, rather than with a vote of dislike or disapproval. As I see it, if a person has a habit of posting like you describe, and they see nothing wrong with what they're doing, they would probably dismiss negative votes as coming from snobs, rather than accepting them and correcting their behavior.

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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by dpm1 »

I believe a +1 would be a good idea in agreeing with/liking posts without having to add anything more.

I don't however think a -1 feature would help at all. I am a strong believer in positive criticism and if something is wrong or disagreeable then something more than a simple 'no' or 'i disagree' should be posted. If I err then tell me where! If I offend then bring it to my attention. Should I post incorrect or misleading information I want to ensure its corrected or explained.

The example with id'ing is a good one.

+1means 'yes I think that too'...so no need to add anything if only repeating a name
-1 as a 'I think its wrong' doesn't help when standing alone. Does it mean 'I don't think it is but I can't find a more suitable alternative' or 'I disagree but simply won't be offering an alternative'?
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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by TwoTankAmin »

I think some salient points are being missed here. So let me offer an example. Most members eventually come to learn who the"resident experts" are on the site. It doesn't take a genius to discern who has extensive experience. So now lets suppose I write a post about breeding zebra plecos. I spend a lot of time and effort to write it.

Over the next week or two I revisit my post and I see that not one of the most respected members here have given my post a +1. Now this may not be due to their not liking it. Some may not have read it figuring they have the knowledge already or did not have the time. Some may simply not bother to +1 one it and some may dislike me enough never to +1 anything I say. Whatever the reasons, from my point of view a piece that I felt had good information etc. apparently did not and that my time and effort were basically wasted. So the next time I wont bother. And then how much time will it take before I might begin to feel there is less reason to visit and to participate? Ask yourselves how the avaergage member might react in a similar situation.

The problem with a +1 system is not just in who gets those +1s but from whom they get them. And failure to get them from the more respected members here would say just as much as getting them. When one has the right and ability to cast a vote for something and does not, that is a statement too. When there is no +1 system, this can never become an issue. And lets face it, the most experienced and expert members here do not have the time or inclination to read every single post. So if one's posts fails to garner a +1 from respected members, they have no way to know if it because their post is not worthy or merely not read.

It gets more convoluted when the topic in question is one on which there is disagreement. What happens when two of the site "experts" hold opposing, or at least clearly differing, opinions. Do the rest of the members stage a "+1 war" to support their own opinion of the topic, or worse, one author over the other based on interpersonal rather than topical considerations. It would be great if this was a simple and straight forward issue, but as we can see, it is not as simple as some want it to be.

So I will say it again, if you want to put in a +1 system, you should also allow any member the option to opt out. To me this is much like those FOTM and TOTM contests we see so often on general fish sites. The difference is that members have the option not to submit entries and not to vote on them either. The +1 system should do the same, imo, if it must be implemented. But I would still prefer in not be used at all. I may be the only one, but I would definitely opt out.

An observation about posting re an accomplishment and the use of +1 or a simple Congrats. The next time one of the fine members here notes they just got married, had a baby, became grandparents or celebrated a birthday, do we suggest all the congrats posted are redundant. Surely every member here would normally offer the same congrats and if those considered friends failed to add their congrats, might the OP not be offended (even it was just an oversight). Similarly, if somebody manages to spawn a difficult or rarely spawned catfish, should not similar congrats be forthcoming on a catfish site?

Aside from that- Happy New Year to all and may 2015 bring you all the fish happiness you desire :YMPARTY:

(edited to ad the letter k to make thin into think in the first line)
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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by dpm1 »

Im a member of a forum that successfully uses the like/dislike function but doesn't use it as a scoring system.

A 'point' is awarded to your profile page and the awarder is offered the chance to add a comment.
On the main pages all you have is a simplified red/green system that runs from 1*red, though a blank, to 5*green.

Everyone will start blank.
A red mark isn't automatically awarded at the first dislike but after a set amount (by which time repeat offenders will usually have learned or been banned anyway).
Same with green marks.

It takes time to be awarded 'public respect' and isn't just a case of hitting +/-1 a dozen times to seal friendships or mark a grudge and if the person on the receiving end has issues then its easy to flag it for a mod to deal with.

You could even have +/-1 rewards time sensitive so people don't just sit on this backside once they earn a green tick. I don't mean wiping them off weekly but looking long term so people can spot a resident 'expert' is indeed resident not simply doing a Santa like once a year visit (it could be 2..3..5...years)
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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by TwoTankAmin »

dpm1 please help a poor old man out and explain to me how you know on this other site you know that the +/1 system works effectively. In particular, how do you count the posts it may have caused members not to make, how do you know how many new potential members who see the system and don't join because of it and how how do you know which current members reduce their postings or stop posting completely because of it?

And while we can debate all of these things here, in the end what really counts is not what a few of us post, it is how the rest of the membership which remains silent on the issue actually feel about it.

And as for having to arbitrate disputed + or - 1s, who is going to do this here? I am sure a lot of the senior folks have their hands full with other more site worthy business which is much more important to the operation of the site than dealing with such issues.

What one may want to ask themselves here is how many people you think have decided to join a site because it has a +1 or other rating system vs the number who have decided not to join or have left a site because of it?
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Re: "Like" feature?

Post by dpm1 »

Specialist forums are a far cry from generic bragging sites like Facebook where number of 'friends' counts above all else. People who join niche sites such as PC don't come in to throw a few smilies to their mates so I'm fail to see how the like/dislike choice can be seen as a mere point scoring exercise.

New joiners won't care about throwing out +1 to every man and his dog, and if they do then chances are they won't be around long on such niche sites as this is hardly a 'yoof group'.

I fail to see why there is such negativity to a fancified 'thank you' system.

As for policing disputes, hopefully this is being done already though the '!' reporting system and the idea that a few -1's will produce any more hate mail than negative posting is in itself very negative.
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