Help - Good price for L numbers?

[Lloydy]

Hi all,

I saw 4x L114s in a local MA. They were charging £30 each and they are about 2.5-3" long.

This is the first time I have seen L114's in a shop. I was wondering, is a good price for them?

Also if anyone was interested here are a few of the others L- numbers they had.

L200 @ £45 each. 3.5-5". Maybe 6 or 7 or these, I didnt count
L66's @ £25each. 3.5-4". 3 maybe 4 of these.
L260 @ £29 each. 3-4" only 3 of these.
Loads of snowballs for £40 each. about 4" at a guess
L134 @ £34 each
L14 @ £40 each. 1.5" estimated.
L128 @ £70. Huge, maybe 6"+ but only the one.

There were others but I didn't make a note of all of them.

[MatsP]

I presume this was the Farnham branch. If so [and they haven't got new deliveries in the last week or two], the so called L260 are not L260 - they are most likely

Hypancistrus sp(l411)

. They aren't quite as contrasty as the L260, and grow larger.

They have L114 in the Guildford branch too, at the same price (from memory). I'm uncertain as to whether that is a good price or not. They grow quite big tho'.

--
Mats

[Richard B]

Personally i have an eye for a bargain, maybe it's the yorkshireman in me (we're nearly as frugal as the Scots ) & as i get around a lot of UK shops i think some of these are the going rate & some a little/quite pricey. Weigh that up with travelling to get a better deal though & of course, any fish is only worth what someone is prepared to pay.....

[Lloydy]

I presume this was the Farnham branch. If so [and they haven't got new deliveries in the last week or two], the so called L260 are not L260 - they are most likely

Hypancistrus sp(l411)

. They aren't quite as contrasty as the L260, and grow larger.

They have L114 in the Guildford branch too, at the same price (from memory). I'm uncertain as to whether that is a good price or not. They grow quite big tho'.

--
Mats

I actually went to both yesterday.

Farnham had lots of L14s @ £40, L66s, L200, also lots of bulldog plecs and few others including a couple of big L200s.

Guildford - I could only see 1x L14 @ £35, L260 (or L411 as you pointed out above). L114s, the bigger L128 and a few others and some L134.

Both had Snowballs at similar size and prices. Also I remember both having Gold Nuggets with different numbers L18, L81 and the other L number *i forget which* and sizes from 3"+ and prices from £24?-£40ish. I think they both also had candy striped but might be worth calling ahead to check.

[apistomaster]

Is your plan to keep a large variety of L-number plecos or do you have a couple you would want to keep as potential breeding groups?
The selection before you appears to be excellent. I do think it is wise to think through what your goals are before blowing a lot of fish money.

I think if you can afford to buy many at one time you might be able to negotiate a discount.
Maybe an even better discount if you were to buy 6 or more of 2 different species.
Most shops understand that turnover at a discount to a serious customer beats hanging on to any unsold and perishable inventory.

The prices sure seem high to me. I realize there are added costs related to the longer shipping distances and probably several intermediary distributors. All of which contribute to higher prices.

We are spoiled in the US.
It only takes a little shopping on line to find small specimens of L200 for US $20 to $25 each for one example.

[MatsP]

I'd say that most of Maidenhead Aquatics prices (particularly in the two shops local to me and Lloydy) are not the lowest available. But as we all know, prices do vary from place to place, and the quality of the fish in both shops is very good (Farnham got the "Best livestock quality award 2008" for the 92 shops). But I paid a lot less for the L128's at Pier in Wigan - 4-5" TL fish, and I paid £26 - which is about US$35 (using brain for calculations, I may be off by a bit). But then it would cost me about £50 to travel up to Wigan to get those fish, so if I hadn't been there already for the CSG convention, I may not have seen it as a bargain...

But a lot of pricing depends on what route the fish took to the shop.

I'm a tad miffed with MA at the moment, because apparently the area manager for this area has decreed that "no customer to get any form of money/credit note/etc for bringing any fish to the shop".

--
Mats

[Lloydy]

I think I want to move from a community tank to a more focused breeding tank. At the moment I have spent time getting 3 L333s together. It would have been 4 but I lost the 2nd female shortly after getting her

Since I have the L333s it makes sense for me to focus on these... although it doesn't stop me looking at other L numbers as I reckon I have space for another 2-3 similar sized plecs.

In the long term after my girlfriend and I get our own place I think I will want another big tank (300-600l) which will probably more plec focused with lots of nice things like L14, L24, L25s and others. Whatever seems a good price / is available at the time.

I'm a tad miffed with MA at the moment, because apparently the area manager for this area has decreed that "no customer to get any form of money/credit note/etc for bringing any fish to the shop".

Mats

I spoke to one of the managers at the MA in Farnham a few weeks ago and he said that all MA shops were struggling financially. Despite the fact that the Farnham branch one was one of the best/most profitable it was only really covering its own costs due to the highish rent of the building and that they might close a few of the less profitable MA shops. Its a shame because most people that just want a basic tank will probably go to somewhere like Pets at Home for basic stuff, its only more specialist fish you will get from MA and even then you might use online options or private sellers

[Richard B]

I think I want to move from a community tank to a more focused breeding tank.

This sounds sensible in the current climate & can only be a step in the right direction.

I'm a tad miffed with MA at the moment, because apparently the area manager for this area has decreed that "no customer to get any form of money/credit note/etc for bringing any fish to the shop".

Mats

Even in current financial circumstances this is surely a bad move as it ostracises part of the customer base, & cuts off a supply source that may well be cheaper than a wholesaler (?)

[MatsP]

Even in current financial circumstances this is surely a bad move as it ostracises part of the customer base, & cuts off a supply source that may well be cheaper than a wholesaler (?)

Obviously, there has to be a balance between "buying anything that a customer brings in" and "not paying for any customer bred fish". I believe a balance can be struck. Obviously, also, a price that is competetive vs. the wholesalers is essential for everyones relative happiness.

--
Mats

[apistomaster]

Since we have drifted off course a bit from Lloydy's O. P., I have my 2 cents on the topic of fish shops declining to buy from local breeders.

The same thing has become more common in the USA as well. When I first began breeding fish it was only about 2 years later that I opened my my own fish shop. This is going back 4 decades. Back then there were no big chain store pet/fish shops. All the shops were out growths of a hobby that grew beyond the boundaries of being a hobby any longer. These owners had complete control over their buying policies. No centralized buyers. Having previously been breeder/hobbyist themselves, these owners could appreciate the accomplishments of those who could supply them with home bred fish and given the opportunity, they preferred to buy locally bred fish. There were no changes in water being used by the breeder and the shop so the fish experience no shock nor stressful shipping conditions.
It was a good time for our hobby but that rapport between breeders and shop owners has diminished a lot. I have been fortunate to have made friends with what few self-owned fish shops as there are in my region, in roughly a 250 mile radius from me, who still look forward to receiving some locally bred and healthy fish.

In the old days, the independent fish shops bought from a variety of sources and usually many of the most popular fish were bought in "box lots". Now there are regional wholesalers who run regular delivery routes. Many shops now only stock a few of a particular species and the regional wholesaler brings enough fish to replace those sold or lost since their last delivery. They also back up some of the losses incurred by the shops. They require minimum orders.
If your LFS buys too many locally bred fish, it cuts into their minimum order budget and hobbyists can't be expected to replace the in store losses or customer losses the shop covers but passes on to their supplier. This is the new "Just in Time Inventory" concept perfected by Walmart, Costco, Petsmart and Petco to name a few. Does anyone remember the days when shops had tanks full of each variety of Angelfish or Fancy guppies? Not seen anymore. One tank for Angelfish and one for Fancy Guppies containing a variety of color forms. This was a disaster for fancy guppies since they interbreed, you will have difficulty finding pure bred Fancy Guppies anymore at a LFS. It doesn't matter with young Angelfish. This new way of doing business did not come without a cost to individual fish keepers. We pay a premium price necessary to support the way regional wholesalers sell, deliver and cover some losses. Right off the top, it doubles the wholesale price vs buying fish in larger lots directly from national wholesalers.

I think the hobby has become poorer from these changes and independent shops are struggling to hang on. They were before the recent economic disaster. The changes have occurred insidiously over many decades. I have a lot of respect for the few independent fish shops who dare to try in these times and conditions. The fish hobby would be better if it was less centralized and owners or dept managers were allowed or could afford to buy quality home bred fish. We can't expect them to be the dumping grounds for fish we should never have bought. That is a whole other topic for discussion at another time.

[Carp37]

I think the hobby has become poorer from these changes and independent shops are struggling to hang on. They were before the recent economic disaster. The changes have occurred insidiously over many decades. I have a lot of respect for the few independent fish shops who dare to try in these times and conditions. The fish hobby would be better if it was less centralized and owners or dept managers were allowed or could afford to buy quality home bred fish. We can't expect them to be the dumping grounds for fish we should never have bought. That is a whole other topic for discussion at another time.

Well said Larry- I'm fortunate enough that, at present, two highly-rated aquarium shops in my area will take fish off me, albeit only for credit. As an aquarist, I'm perfectly happy to take good-quality home-bred fish rather than wild-caught fish, and I'm also glad that my bristlenose, Tilapia and geos have contributed to my costs for dechlorinator, fish food and filters/heaters etc. As I don't have a fish-house my output of fry is limited by tank space, but I'd hate to not have any outlet for home-produced fish.

[MatsP]

Question: Does anyone think that this thread should be split - it's not entirely trivial as the two threads are quite intertwined with posts that belong in both the new and the old thread if I were to do a split, so I'm currently not sure whether it is worth it. Anyone have strong opinions in either direction?

--
Mats

[Carp37]

Question: Does anyone think that this thread should be split - it's not entirely trivial as the two threads are quite intertwined with posts that belong in both the new and the old thread if I were to do a split, so I'm currently not sure whether it is worth it. Anyone have strong opinions in either direction?

--
Mats

Hi Mats- it's certainly wandered off the original topic, so there's a good case for splitting it. As to whether it's worth it is open to question- is it just work for work's sake? On the other hand, I'm sure aquarists like yourself who are no longer being offered credit for fish where previously they were, might gain from ringing round local shops to see if they could get credit, but that would presumably vary according to country and region.

Feel free to delete this post when a decision is made...

[apistomaster]

I think splitting this discussion would be a good idea since the subject of small breeders selling to local shops is totally unrelated to what is a good price for L-Numbers.

My fish breeding set up consists of only 16 aquariums so I have pretty small operation.
I raise fish that are popular but still rather expensive.

With a few exceptions, I sell my fish for cash.

I don't raise many common or cheap fish and I do not feel that if I sell expensive fish at wholesale prices in exchange for store credit at retail that it is a fair arrangement. I do trade some fish with a one fish shop customer who does exchange at wholesale values and with one wholesaler. These are fair deals. Otherwise, I want cash I can spend anywhere. I don't like being tied down to any shop due to some credit arrangement.