3rd update on tropical pond and ID questions

[Viktor Jarikov]

Here is the link, see from the 1/3 down of page 2 and onto page 3
http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 8&start=20

Please post your opinions as you see fit, here or in the linked thread.

Thanks a bunch to all in advance as usual!!

Viktor

[Mod edit: Make link more visible by adding a newline --Mats]

[MatsP]

It would help quite a bit if you posted one set of pictures of one species in the ID section. Also, you may want to consider getting a "photo tank" (in your case, I suspect a 55g tank is suitable, rather than the 3" x 5" show tank that I use for small fishes).

It gets very messy if you have half a dozen different species in one thread that are being identified and discussed, because comments will come in on one fish, and then another comment on another fish, and people eventually don't know which fish is actually being discussed.

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Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

Good thoughts, Mats. Should I redo my latest ID requests or should I just keep this in mind for the future?

It is not easy to catch my fish in the 25x6x3' pond and when I do, I cannot do it without causing minor injuries to the fish, like messed up fins or superficial skin scratches, so I'd rather not know for dead sure who they are than take chances and subject them to my amateur catching exercises and much stress - everybody freaks out when I start swinging my 1.5' landing net on a 5' pole around the pond . And it is not a nice rectangular pond either...

[crkinney]

Wow! Can I come over to your house with my fishing pole . You have an amazing collection.
what do you feed all those guys? the neighborhood cats.

[MatsP]

I'd say a new thread now, for any fish than that you haven't already got ID'd. Obviously, it's up to you, and having TWO threads for one ID discussion is probably not a good idea either.

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Mats

[wrasse]

Hi Victor,

You have a jolly collection of fish! Lovely photos. Aren't you tempted to put on the snorkel and get in there?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Wow! Can I come over to your house with my fishing pole . You have an amazing collection.
what do you feed all those guys? the neighborhood cats.

Thanx! yes but only for target-feeding exercises - they are amenable to these the staple foods are floating pellets (Purina game fish chow, koi pellets, etc.), raw crust-on shrimp $4/lb, raw tilapia $4/lb, skin-on whiting $3/lb, occasional bay mussels and calamari, with lots of supplements - algae wafers, tropical flakes, spirulina pellets, shrimp pellets, clumps of freeze-dried (f.d.) brine shrimp and bloodworms and tubifex worms, crickets, red and purple seaweed flakes, f.d. krill, f.d. plankton, color-enhancing large-fish-formula pellets, etc. etc. etc. No, no felines for that matter, no mice, no rats, no chipmunks, no roadkill of which there is PLENTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY - your white-tail deer, woodchucks, squirrels, rabbits, skunks, raccoons, foxes, birds or all kinds, possums, etc. - albeit it is SOOOO tempting - so much meat is just lying around rotting all over the place going to waste and here I am in the frozen seafood supermarket section shelling out my hard-earned $$$

a-a-a, the things we do in the name of love... despicable... love for fish in this case...

not everybody eats everything either, of course - e.g., large pims want meat and only meat and more, more meat!!!! Channels are aquatic pigs - gimmy, gimmy, gimmy something, anything, man! Such are also Leiarius Marmoratus and the one non-ID'ed yet doradid I call Grany. IDS's love mostly floating pellets but one, Albi, eats all meats right out of my hand - just keep stuffing her/his mouth.

I'd say a new thread now, for any fish than that you haven't already got ID'd. Obviously, it's up to you, and having TWO threads for one ID discussion is probably not a good idea either.

Ok. How would you recommend to handle the following: wanting to have a centralized space for say one tank or one person but still wanting to attract attention of the people whose help is needed? Do you think a new thread is completely unnecessary for the latter task?

Hi Victor, You have a jolly collection of fish! Lovely photos. Aren't you tempted to put on the snorkel and get in there?

Thanx!! Sometimes I do. I always want to but I do it only if there is work that cannot be done from out-of-the-water, like setting up the divider. But last time I did that was months ago when it was not so populated. It was lots of fun. Right now, I must confess I am afraid of their spikes - I'd need to borrow a diving suit from friends but even that, I think, can get punctured by a scared, darting 1.5-2' cat flying by you in a great hurry. Not that it is highly relevant but I've read a story of an unfortunate Thai (?) fisherman who dove to free a tangled up net and got poked by a great Mekong river cat, if I am not mistaken, which claimed his life. Long time ago, like in 1930-ies?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Racolls post is somewhat encouraging for the use of roadkill

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 28#p196926

1 liver for Humane consumption is from a mammal - thus warm blooded. Fish have a lot of problems digesting this, as their body temperature is far less then the mammal had. Some fishes can digest mammals, but not the unspecialized ones



Ah, the good old saturated animal fat in fishfood question. I think I contest this opinion every time it's brought up!

I wrote a short article in PFK on this; maybe it will be published in the September issue?

Essentially, there is very little scientific evidence that feeding animal fats and proteins is as bad is people make out*. Fish are able to use saturated fats just as well as unsaturated fats, even in really quite cold water.

I see no reason why liver can't be used as a occasional, say weekly supplement, or as a small proportion of a staple food.

livers, as all organs, are very vunerable to decay. eating rotten food is, apart for specialized animals, a bad idea



I don't think this precludes its use entirely. Just make sure it is fit for human consumption and stored carefully.

*This is not to say feeding only beef to a Panaque or Otocinclus for example, is a good idea.

[MatsP]

"One thread for everything" is a difficult thing to handle. A thread to indicate another thread needs attention is, in my opinion, completely pointless - post something in the ORIGINAL thread in that case.

But my point about the ID is that if you actually want someone to look at pictures of a particular fish and ID that one, then having one thread per fish is a very good way to concentrate the mind of those looking at the pictures.

If the discussion is about how to build, maintain, or otherwise deal with your tropical pond, then of course, that doesn't belong in "what is my catfish"...

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Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

Gotcha. Clear enough, Mats! Sometimes my "resourcefulness" gets the best of me, I'd say.

I guess I/we must be spoiled by thorough guys like say Birger who, in his ID-ing replies, creates a list of answers corresponding to the sequence of photos and questions - concise, clear, no confusion. Plus, I indicated the unique nicknames for the fish in question to minimize confusion.

Anyway, will do as you suggest in the future.

[Viktor Jarikov]

"One thread for everything" is a difficult thing to handle. A thread to indicate another thread needs attention is, in my opinion, completely pointless - post something in the ORIGINAL thread in that case.

So, the conclusion is that the experts react the same when they see

------ a new post having an old, familiar title and no question in that title and
------ a new post having a fresh, never-seen-before title and containing a solicitation for help.

If you say this is right then I smell a big learning opportunity for me because at the face value, this does not add up.

[MatsP]

What I'm saying is:
If you already have a thread, and you want more attention to it, then "bump it" by posting something saysing "Have you guys looked at this?" - don't start ANOTHER thread... However, "bumping" threads is something that should be considered carefully, and if it's done too much, it's grounds for warnings and such. So don't "bump" your post after just a few hours.

I can obviously only speak for myself, but I try to read EVERY new post ever posted (whether I read it carefully or just skim over it is a different matter). I'm sure that some of the members that do not spend as much time on the forum do not read every thread - but I don't think it then really matters whether the thread is new or old - it is more a case of "read the subject title (and which forum/author?), and then decide what to do" - new posts in an old thread that is of interest to that member are clearly more interesting that new, unknown threads that may not be of interest. Someone interested in plecos may not look in the "cory" section, for example. Or a thread about large indoor ponds - because that is not a subject that is likely to be much about plecos... ;)

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Mats

[Jools]

"One thread for everything" is a difficult thing to handle. A thread to indicate another thread needs attention is, in my opinion, completely pointless - post something in the ORIGINAL thread in that case.

Indeed, and actually this is cross-posting, which is against the forum rules, and could see a warning issued. No one has a right to have their posts answered. If it doesn't get answered, then maybe look at re-wording the question or providing more data. Or even resorting to a "why is nobody answering, I've was hoping that after a week or two (polite)" post.

I have to say I find a selection of your posts hard to follow as they do not stay on topic. Enthusiasm can be offputting at times. I'd sugget that is the number one reason why any posts don't attract a lot of replies or good discourse.

Jools

[Viktor Jarikov]

Mats, Jools, thank you guys! Please, continue to help perfect my act - I only appreciate it, believe me, and take it constructively. Still, of course, I am sorry and sad to hear my activity is somewhat scattered and offputting at times. Well, I try my best to be clear and concise and use the space and time efficiently but it is not good enough. It cannot be, really, good enough for everybody but your opinion matters a lot. If you, Jools, are uncomfortable or what not explaining this further, then please don't but an elaboration would help me further, I think. You could pm if you will. I'll be very happy to hear your feedback in the name of my personal improvement.

Thanx for explaining the cross-posting. I did not know and now, I do. This is as clear as day now - it is not about visibility anymore and our differing understanding of it - it's about rules and I broke one.

Respectfully,

Viktor

[Jools]

Hi Viktor,

I think it's just we're really keen to follow your exploits, but I think (it may just be me) find it all a bit of a jumble. This is because I dip in and out of topics as replies come in rather than read them top down. So, I had found myself having to go back a few posts to understand.

Anyway, not a problem about cross posting. I think even some mods had forgotten since the days where we had a rules page.

Jools

[MatsP]

I don't think this is an issue about what rules, and who broke what rule. And the rules aren't here to punish people for getting it wrong once in a while - if everyone was perfect, we wouldn't need moderators [and moderators aren't perfect either, by any means - we just have a bit more right to "fix" things when others get it wrong]. The purpose of these rules is to ensure that those who BLATANTLY break the rules are not causing everyone else nuisance (e.g. posting in the pleco section, then posting a post in the cory, african, asian and south american others and the everything else sections to say "Look at my thread in the pleco section"). Now that would definitely warrant a warning, and as you can probably imagine, a lot of people would think that rather annoying. Likewise, if someone is bumping their own thread several times in a few days, without adding anything useful in the process, it's just making everyone go read some meaningless new posts - that's another good way to get a warning... ;)

I personally think some of your threads are getting muddled because there is so much discussion going on, about several different subjects. And that leads to:
1. Misunderstandings (by those of us that don't follow ONLY that thread).
2. People loosing interest, because there is 10 or more new posts since last time they looked at it, and those are all about something OTHER than what they were discussing last time.

If you have several threads, one about one subject, and another about something else, there is less chance of both of the above niggles.

In summary: You haven't really broken the rules - we're just trying to help you get the best experience from here.

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Mats

[grokefish]

Can I stick my opinion on bumping in here, I think that the problem is that there used to be a big long list of active topics on the home page but that has become smaller for whatever reason, I'm not complaining just observing, I think this encourages bumping more as your topic soon disapears from the home page.
I have found that I forget about topics when they dip off the home page.

[MatsP]

I don't really think we have a big problem with bumping. Again, it's more of a "we need a rule for those rare occasions where a problem user is annoying people".

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Mats

[Jools]

Can I stick my opinion on bumping in here, I think that the problem is that there used to be a big long list of active topics on the home page but that has become smaller for whatever reason, I'm not complaining just observing, I think this encourages bumping more as your topic soon disapears from the home page.
I have found that I forget about topics when they dip off the home page.

We're talking about bumping in a thread called "3rd update on tropical pond and ID questions", but, quickly, I've not changed the number of topics on the front page IIRC.

Jools

[Viktor Jarikov]

We're talking about bumping in a thread called "3rd update on tropical pond and ID questions"

I have things to say/ask in regards to my posting habits that Mats, Jools, and I had touched upon but I agree with Jools and in fact, had noted that myself that we are way, way, and away outside the title boundaries and yes, here I go again... another one of my threads is getting pretty muddled, even though it is being done in the name of the improvement and betterment. Along the lines of "The road to hell is paved with best intentions", heh?

Should I do it here (this thread is a train wreck - there is only 2-4 relevant posts here that adhere to the topic - not that this justifies wrecking it further) or create a new thread, smth like "Helping Viktor J. become a better forum participant" or "Notes on the evolution of Viktor J. as a forum goer and communicator" ? If yes, what forum?

[Jools]

Well, I guess one of any of our many mods could split off the posts once they go off topic. Or more quickly try to keep things on topic.

Jools

[crkinney]

VIKTOR your a bad boy

[Viktor Jarikov]

Would not be my first time!! I am a highly skilled and experienced BB!