Cherry shrimp + plec?

[shroob88]

Hi all,

I'm a newcomer to these boards and plecs in general it has to be said, my only experience with them is being sold a sailfin for a 3ft community tank when I first started fishkeeping. Thankfully I have learnt my lessons and I come to you to ask your advise before I make a mistake.

I have a Juwel rio 180 (approx 180 litres) that is a cherry shrimp breeding tank, planted, sand substrate and plenty of bogwood. I have always liked plecs, their unusual look and wondered if it would be possible to have a plec in this tank that won't interfere with the breeding of my cherry shrimp (ie eat all the shrimplets). I am primarily looking at the L177 version of the golden nugget, but any other suggestions would be welcomed.

So I'm wondering if anyone has experience with this plec and cherry shrimp, or indeed any plecs and shrimp in general and if so how has it worked out.

Many thanks,
Shroob

[Richard B]

Hi Shroob & welcome to Planet Catfish

Although i have limited experience with L177 it is an omniverous grazer & i think the shrimplets would be in danger. Loricariids are generally perceived as algae eaters but in fact some of them eat little or no green matter & some have quite specialist requirements. I think a lot of this family would put shrimplets in jeopardy. I would perhaps suggest hypoptopoma, farlowella, otocinclus, nannoptopoma, hisonotus etc as these are smaller, primarily vegetarian & available to a degree.

I'd be interested to see what others think

[Mike_Noren]

Common ancistrus is safe with cherry shrimp too. Don't know about L-177.

[shroob88]

I like the long fin bristlenose, so that might be a possibility.

Thanks for the input so far all.

[Birger]

This is a quote out of this thread http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =4&t=23409
I do not think Baryancistrus would be a good choice(size and diet) but there seems to be a few others that would work

I raise 5 "flavors" of shrimp with mostly catfish; Corydoras hastatus, C. habrosus, L134, L204, L260 and Sturisoma. None bother the shrimp babies and the shrimp don't eat the catfish fry.
Cherry shrimp are especially adept at surviving with small Tetras, Apistogramma spp and others. I raise Betta sp "Mahachai" along with Cherry shrimp and they so-exist just fine and newly hatched Betta fry are probably as small or smaller than new htched Cherry shrimp. As long as there is a pretty dense growth of mosses, Ceratophyllum, Najas ; anything that is difficult to easily penetrate, plenty of shrimp survive and there will be a net increase over time. Outside canister and HOB Filters are more dangerous to the tiny shrimplets than fish so just be sure to use sponge prefilters or media net type bags around the inlets and they will actually congregate on the surfaces to feed on the collect debris. Wet/Dry overflows don't allow baby shrimp to survive long enough to resist being drawn in and besides, the shrimp will explore any place they can get into in their never ending search for food.
The Crystal Reds were reproducing well until the water temps exceeded 80 then 88*F and caused them to die. That is way above their comfort zone. We went from a cooler and wetter than usual first half of June this year and by then there were hundreds of crystal red with the C. habrosus and their young but then it spiked at about 104*F and stayed at ~100*F ever since mid-June and that was the end of the CRS.
Larry Waybright

[shroob88]

Thanks for that thread, I'll have a look around and see if I can source and of the plecs mentioned then try and do some more research on them.

[apistomaster]

I do not foresee a problem keeping many species of shrimp with any Baryancistrus spp except I would think the other fish tank mates that may be chosen could present a predation threat to the shrimp. I say this because i think most people tend to keep their larger plecos with larger fish in general. Otherwise, I haven't found any pleco that actually harms healthy living shrimp but they do eat the dead ones.

[shroob88]

I do not foresee a problem keeping many species of shrimp with any Baryancistrus spp except I would think the other fish tank mates that may be chosen could present a predation threat to the shrimp. I say this because i think most people tend to keep their larger plecos with larger fish in general. Otherwise, I haven't found any pl*co that actually harms healthy living shrimp but they do eat the dead ones.

At the moment the only other tankmates are guppys (refugees from another tank and will be rehomed ASAP, sometime in the next week probably) as the tank was always designed as a shrimp only tank. However recently I've been thinking of adding a fish in there, as a 'centrepiece' or something to add interest. I thought of plecs due to their different mouth structure may not take to eating shrimp, however some research has contradicted this (read somewhere that if a plec would eat blood worm, it is capable of eating shrimp/baby shrimp - makes sense to me). I know I'm making generalisations by saying 'plec' but hopefully you will get what I mean.

Have you kept plecs with shrimp personally? And if so what combinations did you have?

Many thanks,
Shroob.

[Birger]

Larry Waybright from the quote used in my previous post above is apistomaster

I still do not think I would use one of these baryancistrus in with the shrimps, I picture it like a bull in a china shop, but I could be wrong on that.

[apistomaster]

I see it much as you do, Birger, that the diminutive shrimp spp would be a proportional imbalance although the Barys will not harm a living shrimp.
There are major differences between what behaviors or lack thereof that a live Chironomid larvae("blood worms") have and those of any of the popular shrimp spp. The blood worm is only capable of floundering on the surface of the substrate and it's only hope for surviving long is if it can bury itself in the sand. Shrimp, OTOH, are quite capable of avoiding any pleco species if it chooses to do so. I would not be surprised if many shrimp would just crawl all over a sizable resting pleco as if it were just another piece of wood or a rock. The shrimp are agile, alert and can be very quick. So I see no reason not to combine them. It is the active predatory catfish species that eat shrimp. A good example of a popular catfish that would delight in having shrimp present would be Pimelodus pictus. Pictus cats would eat any of the colorful spp of algae eating shrimp save possibly a larger Amano Shrimp and only if it was a juvenile Pictus Cat. I would be wary of all non Loricariidae and Ancistriinae Catfish. The tiny Hara spp are a safe exception; they would eat a few tiny shrimp but not enough to wipe out a shrimp colony.

In general I like to keep shrimp in my pleco breeding tanks because the plecos spend so much time inside their caves a tank can appear empty.
Shrimp provide some signs of life, thrive on left over food and pleco droppings. They also reproduce and allow me to make some extra money selling my surplus shrimp while waiting for the plecos to spawn. The sales of the shrimp finance the operating cost of the tanks and then when the plecos breed you really have a chance to make some money but plecos do not generally overwhelm you with fry save common Bushy nose plecos, Ancistrus cf cirrhosus. I sell my common Cherry Shrimp at 12 for $15 US and a 20 to 30 gallon tank of plecos and cherry shrimps earns me a about $300 just from the shrimp sold per year. Many other shrimp sell for much more. The Crystal Red Shrimp(CRS) are really worth raising but unfortunately they should be kept rather cooler than Barys, Peckoltia and Hypancistrus spp to name a few. CRS are best kept between 72*F and 76*F and will stop reproducing and even die if the water temperature is equal to or greater than 80*F. That still leaves a lot of spp of shrimp that do well at 80*F to 85*F.
One thing you must be aware of when you set up a shrimp/pleco combination tank is that the filter must be a sponge filter or one with a sponge prefilter or else the filter will remove all the first few instars of shrimp. An instar is the stage between each molt of a shrimp; particularly the immature age groups.
I guess you can tell I like keeping shrimp in my pleco and Sturisoma breeding tanks.
If you asked your question on a shrimp forum, the opinions will mostly be diametrically opposed to my own but i do whatever helps me make money from my available tank space. The shrimp hobby is still a young one and many "shrimpers" do not keep them with fish. Until they experiment as much as i have, they really don't know for sure what is possible. Most would advise keeping only nano-fish with shrimp and that is generally good advice. I would expect a tank full of guppies to eat a majority of the newly hatched shrimp if there are many guppies present and too few dense plants. Dangers to shrimp sometimes comes in unexpected guises.

[hotsauce48]

One of the most gentelest plecos is the bristlenose pleco,they come in over 100 variations and about (8.7% of them get along great with virtually any fish you put it with.The same goes for shrimp.But I would suggest dividing the tank when it is breeding time as ancistrus sp. may eat other eggs.If you don't like that pleco try the butterfly pleco,with both of the only growing from 4-6 inches they wold be perfct.The clown pleco only eats wood, but be arefull with it around eggs.It only get about four inches.There also is a whiptail catfish only growing 6 incjes and very peacefull you might be able to trust with eggs.It looks a lt like a pleco.All have been known to be peacefull and eat algae