Rineloricaria fallax/Delicate whiptails

All posts regarding the care and breeding of these catfishes from South America.
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kjinks
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Rineloricaria fallax/Delicate whiptails

Post by kjinks »

I am looking for 4, maybe 5 delicates for my 280 ltr tank. My tank is indoors, but unheated & ranges from 15 degrees to about 25/26 degrees. I live in South Australia & can't seem to find any. I have a really good lfs keeping an eye out, but no luck yet. Guy at the store also said most delicates were bred in tropical tanks & I would have to wait until summer to add these fish, then they would aclimatise naturally. Any help or information would be greatly appreciated! :D
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MatsP
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Re: Rineloricaria fallax/Delicate whiptails

Post by MatsP »

Given that this species is not legal for import in Australia (and not really similar to any species that IS legal to import), I'd expect that the shop is correct that you only get them when they breed locally.

I would also suggest that they do need a heated tank - these fish live in truly tropical rivers, and temperatures under about 72'C/22'C would definitely be bad for them, no matter how long they have had to get used to the low temperature. Remember that fish are cold-blooded animals - they live at the temperature of the surrounding water.

I would also suggest that Hemiloricaria fallax (which is the new name of Rineloricaria fallax according to Checklist of Catfishes) is not at all common export from Brazil - they are from an area that is not very much fishing for the trade, far from nearest commercial/big airport. I'd also suspect that most fish sold under this name is another species...

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kjinks
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Re: Rineloricaria fallax/Delicate whiptails

Post by kjinks »

Bugger! :? I'll have to keep looking for somthing then. Any ideas??????? I really like catfish, but is there any that suit my water temps?
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MatsP
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Re: Rineloricaria fallax/Delicate whiptails

Post by MatsP »

There aren't a lot of species that will survive down to 15'C. The Cat-eLog contains 6 species that are OK with 15-26'C, and of those, all but two would be too large for a 280 liter tank.

The two species left in the list are:
Hara hara
Porochilus rendahli

The latter, as you may know, is a Native Australian fish.

Is there any particular reason you can't use a heater in the tank to keep the temperature up to regular tropical temperatures?

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Bas Pels
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Re: Rineloricaria fallax/Delicate whiptails

Post by Bas Pels »

kjinks wrote:Bugger! :? I'll have to keep looking for somthing then. Any ideas??????? I really like catfish, but is there any that suit my water temps?
There are, but most likely not available in Australia

I went to Uruguay and came home with Rhineloricaria which breed, and have 10 C in winter

I'm quite certain a Rhineloricaria species can be found which suits your needs, coming from, say, Paraguay. But there is the problem of the fish going feral. Montevideo, the capital of Uruguay, is on exactly the same latitude as Perth - so fish from there will survive the Perth climate - oops. The other extreme, As far as I know Arnhemsland is fully tropical.

Australia has, I think rightfully, a ban on the import of any species which might survive in the wild - and all species which would suit your needs would be able to thrive in Australias waters.

Still, an alternetive fish which also lives on the sand in the tank could be Corydoras paleatus. They like your temps, and might be findable in Australia
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Re: Rineloricaria fallax/Delicate whiptails

Post by Bas Pels »

MatsP wrote:There aren't a lot of species that will survive down to 15'C. The Cat-eLog contains 6 species that are OK with 15-26'C, and of those, all but two would be too large for a 280 liter tank.

The two species left in the list are:
Hara hara
Porochilus rendahli

The latter, as you may know, is a Native Australian fish.

Is there any particular reason you can't use a heater in the tank to keep the temperature up to regular tropical temperatures?

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I looked over Corydoras paleatus and it says 15-25

OK you could read this as 'not in 26 C' but frankly, my wildcaught fish have 26 C every year
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Re: Rineloricaria fallax/Delicate whiptails

Post by MatsP »

Ok, there may be a few more species if we give it 15-25'C. In fact, Hemiloricaria fallax adds itself to that list - our Cat-eLog page says it's OK with 15-25'C, which surprises me. I haven't kept this species, and fishbase says they got this info from Baensch Atlas. Whilst that is generally a good source, I don't know. It is, I can see, 7 degrees lower than any other species from the same two bodies of water.

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Re: Rineloricaria fallax/Delicate whiptails

Post by Borbi »

Hi,
In fact, Hemiloricaria fallax adds itself to that list - our Cat-eLog page says it's OK with 15-25'C, which surprises me. I haven't kept this species, and fishbase says they got this info from Baensch Atlas.
to make this a little more specific: the information of "15-25°C" stems from the old "Baensch", "Mergus Aquarien Atlas Vol. 1" and is most likely totally out of date. I would even doubt that the pictured and described fish is in fact H. fallax..
While I have yet to keep this species, I do keep the closely related H. melini and H. formosa, both at temperatures "typical" for fish from the Amazon main bodies of water (somewhere around 27°C suits them best). As H. fallax also originates form that area, I doubt that real H. fallax would survive such low temperatures as suggested..

Also, for reference, the Wels Atlas 1 as well as the "Datz Sonderheft Harnischwelse 2" (Datz Special Issue Plecos 2"), containing an in-depth discussion of this species group, suggest higher temperatures of 25-29°C.

So, leaving the legal issues aside, I do not believe that this species would survive an unheated 15°C-winter.

Cheers, Sandor

P.S.: ..and would strongly recommend a short update of the CateLog.. :beardy:
"What gets us into trouble is not what we don´t know.
It´s what we know for sure that just ain´t so."
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MatsP
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Re: Rineloricaria fallax/Delicate whiptails

Post by MatsP »

Yes, I plan on doing an update to the Cat-eLog tonight, after referring to Mergus Catfish Atlas.

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MatsP
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Re: Rineloricaria fallax/Delicate whiptails

Post by MatsP »

Temp now updated to 25-29'C.

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Re: Rineloricaria fallax/Delicate whiptails

Post by Shaun »

The were Whiptails being sold as Hemiloricaria fallax in Australia many years ago, but I think they were mis-identified. Pretty common occurence here. Porochilus rendahli are readily available, great native cat to keep :D
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Re: Rineloricaria fallax/Delicate whiptails

Post by MatsP »

Shaun wrote:The were Whiptails being sold as Hemiloricaria fallax in Australia many years ago, but I think they were mis-identified. Pretty common occurence here.
I don't think it's unusual anywhere that fish are sold under a different names than what they really are.

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kjinks
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Re: Rineloricaria fallax/Delicate whiptails

Post by kjinks »

Question answered!!!! I think I'll probably go with the rendahlis. As for why I don't heat my tank: My husband! :wink: He thinks that a dog, a snake , a horse & a cool water tank are quite enough.

As for rendahlis, how many is a good number to keep, & will the chinese algae eater, currently keeping my tank clean, be a problem for them? I am happy to re-home him, as I would have had to for the other types of fish anyway.

Also, are there any algae eating fish that suit my tank temps?

Thanks everyone, Cheers, Kylie. :D
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Re: Rineloricaria fallax/Delicate whiptails

Post by MatsP »

Well, I'm not sure why a heater would cause a big problem in the whole scheme of things - after all, the heater and the electricity it uses for the next several years won't cost more than perhaps a weeks worth of food for the other lot... (Here in the UK, a decent heater is about £30, and if it's "on" about 25% of the time (6 hours per day, 365 days, 200W -> 0.2 * 6 * 365 , it would use up a few*.09
of hundred kWh per year -> around £40). £70 is approximately AU$120, or $2.30 per week - that's if you buy a new heater every year, which isn't really necessary.... The electricity cost on it's own is $1.30 per week, and the heater should last at least 5 years, so if we amortize it over that period, then it's another $0.20 per week. But of course, it's not for me to say...

Chinese algae eaters are a bit of a misnomer - when they are young they will indeed eat algae, but as they mature, they tend to prefer other foods, and can be aggressive towards other fish - I don't know how the P. rendahli would fair in such a battle.

As to other algae eaters: Sure, there are some subtropical algae-eaters. The so called "Hong-kong pleco", which is a form of loach that lives in fast-flowing water is a good algae eater - just make sure that the tank is very well oxygenated to make the fish happy.

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